Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Boats have no sex, yet boaters often refer to them using feminine pronouns and not the inanimate pronoun. Suggests gender has more influence on the use of gender pronouns than sex.
Caitlyn Jenner
- Thread starter Beantown
- Start date
Boats have no sex, yet boaters often refer to them using feminine pronouns and not the inanimate pronoun. Suggests gender has more influence on the use of gender pronouns than sex.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Here's an example of a third societal gender role that doesn't generally translate as male/man or female/woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhamana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lhamana
b_line
Well-Known Member
Not talking about gender, but sex. He is a boy as far as his sex is concerned, right?
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
"Boy" is a gender term, not a sex term.
I have no interest in this particular case, so I don't know the specifics here.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Caitlyn's sex is biologically male-- but her gender is female. People identify with gender, not with sex. Caitlyn is a she. It's disrespectful and transphobic to refer to her as otherwise
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D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Now it's been over ten years since I got my Anthro. degree, but so far as I remember, female can't be a gender. I believe it would be more accurate to say biologically male, but her gender is woman.
My classes that had gender as a curriculum were focused primarily on the cultural and societal role of gender, not the biological relationship of sex to gender, so transgendered stuff is quite a gray area for me.
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
Hold the hell up.
Transphobic to say otherwise? So if I state I disagree, I'm afraid of transvestites? I can assure you I don't have a fear of them. But maybe I'm a muslimphobe too. Hell, I'm probably an organicphobe in that case.
Or if people disagree with Christianity, can I go out and call them disrespectful christianphobes? Is that how this works?
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
So lemme ask you Dala, you've got a middle school aged girl playing some sport. There's some biologically male who identifies as a woman that gets to play on that team. You cool with them sharing a locker room? I'm just curious, because I would have to say I would not be comfortable with that at all.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Yes, and I'd hold the trans-athlete to the same set of standards & conduct that I would hold all of my athletes to. If I heard of any abuse in the locker room I would deal with it swiftly.
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Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
As a societal issue, this concept has been showing up more frequently.
For athletics, often the restrictions for girl sports in school is that the participants have to be female. Sex testing was a big deal during the Beijing Olympics cycle.
There have been newsworthy items where male children identifying as girls and vice versa have had his/her parents at odds with schools on what bathrooms can be used.
Where problems truly lie is when one's gene makeup on the sex chromosome doesn't neatly fit into male and female, which makes that individual's gender in western culture nearly impossible to obtain since western culture fixates so heavily on equating sex and gender.
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
Yes because you're denying their right their own identity. By calling Ms. Jenner things like "he-she", or "he", you're basically stripping her of a right to her identity-- regardless if you agree with it or not. Try and put yourself in her shoes.
Them scary Mozlems.
it would be as if I went around calling all of yall heathens, and stripped you of your right to identify as Christian. That would make me a 'Christianphobe'
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RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
See I disagree. I don't care if you say I'm not a Christian, you don't have the authority to determine those things. I mean do you honestly think you saying I'm not a Christian would strip me of that identity? That's asinine. And I wouldn't call you a Christianphobe, as you're merely disagreeing with it, which we should have the right to do. A society that is not allowed to disagree with things is no free society.
Again, phobia indicates having a fear of something. Disagreeing with something does not mean you have a fear of it.
Finally, I never called Bruce a "he-she", I called him a he, because that's what I view him as. Now my view doesn't make him any more, or less what he is. I'm not denying his viewpoints, he gets to keep those.
Again, phobia indicates having a fear of something. Disagreeing with something does not mean you have a fear of it.
Finally, I never called Bruce a "he-she", I called him a he, because that's what I view him as. Now my view doesn't make him any more, or less what he is. I'm not denying his viewpoints, he gets to keep those.
DutchJazzer
Banned
ccan i identify as king of the world?
doe sit make me king of the world
after all king is a socially constructed identity.
now obey me fools!
DutchJazzer
Banned
soon taxpayers will be paying for operation for these people.
courtesy of obamacare
aah yes the freedom leech of others
DutchJazzer
Banned
calling someone a xxxxxcist or a xxxxxphobe shopws lack of inteligence.
it is usually a diversionary tactic so you dont have to come up with arguments
Carbon13
Well-Known Member
Im a little late to the conversation, but I think Caitlyn has the right to do what she wants. Its wrong to make fun of her or make derogatory remarks. That said, I believe in an open forum discussion and also think its wrong to label people phobic if they disagree with it. There are a lot of reasons why someone might think its wrong but as long as they are respectful it doesnt make them small minded.
DutchJazzer
Banned
but this cuts both was
isnt redefining a religious concept as marriage denying all these religious "nuts". their identity of holy matirmony?
you wont answer cus you are a coward. but this whole denying identity argument cuts both ways.
if disagreeing withsomeone something makes u a phobe or a cist. well meet me the BIGGEST PHOBYcIsT
D
Deleted member 848
Guest
The problem with this is that this entire comparison is 100% apples to oranges. You simply aren't trying to put yourself in a woman's shoes who's undergone a sex-change. Gender identity is so much more noticeable, and has so much more of a history of people calling their identities mental disorders, and that they shouldn't be allowed to embrace the identities that they do. You simply aren't understanding, my friend.
And a hateful society is an unjust society that Jesus would frown upon.
It's a common generalization made by the trans-community-- due to the majority of their critics being very inconsiderate of their identities (largely out of fear & not understanding). Like all generalizations, it's a 'generalization'-- still, I'd rather be labelled as a transphobe than a prick (which is quite-honestly what you are, when you call a harmless individual something they don't like to be called)
That's the thing though-- referring to Caitlyn as 'he' is simply incredibly rude to someone who was flipped over their entire life & strained a 20< year marriage with multiple children simply to embrace this identity she always felt lost without. I'm not sure what's wrong with calling people what they want to be called.
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