Pleiss

[Deleted member 848]

wtf is asking Carroll to play out of position?

Playing Carroll at the "2" (not everyone thinks the 2 and 3 are as interchangeable as you do).

 

[Stoked]

for those of you who want to talk about basketball, here's this:

I watched 75+ games of the Hawks last year. Carroll still can and still does play D on 2s and 3s. He's a spot-up guy, so his position on offense doesn't matter, 2 or 3.

If the Jazz get Carroll, which I'm ok with, who do you let go? Ingles or Millsap?

 

[FabioJazz]

Ingles >>>>> Millsap

 

[Stifle Tower]

Not bad, alt.
The same could work with Carroll. Not quite the shooter Green is, but a better defender. The key is to have everyone buy into the fewer minutes plan. And your plan relies on having Burks play backup PG. That latter part scares me.

 

[Deleted member 848]

think roles not positions

Quite arbitrary, but I'll give this a shot.

We need a shooter. A volume 3pt shooter preferably one that plays D.

Shooting and defending are two different "roles", Einstein. Also, Rodney Hood fills volume shooting well.

If that is at the 2 or the 1 it doesn't really matter but we need one. That's why I like Green.

We literally have like 5 potential volume shooters on this roster. We also have a very capable defensive team-- in case you forgot from last season somehow

My preference would be to move Burke. Pick up Green. Give Burks 20 min at backup PG, see if it fits him. If he can't manage it than we need to go get a combo guard.

How about we see what we have with the PG play of Exum, Burke, Cotton, Hanlan, and Burks first. This isn't a do-or-die season for us-- lets assess the assets we currently have, cuz there's a good chance that some might be much better than anything else attainable for reasonable amounts of cash on the market.

I'd be pretty happy with this being the basic rotation to end the season(if Burks and Lyles can play their roles)

Exum 28min/Burks 20 min
Green 28 min/Hood 10 min/Burks 10min
Hayward 30 min/Hood 18min
Favors 30min/Lyles 18 min
Gobert 30min/Pleiss 18 min

Playing ~70% of Burks' minutes at PG seems incredibly stupid to me.

 

[Stifle Tower]

If the Jazz get Carroll, which I'm ok with, who do you let go? Ingles or Millsap?

You let Ingles sign a decent free agent contract with another team and then claim poverty in not matching it. At some point, Utah is going to start losing guys like Ingles. It will happen this season with Jeremy Evans: popular players who move on because they're replaced by someone better.

 

[Deleted member 848]

for those of you who want to talk about basketball, here's this:

I watched 75+ games of the Hawks last year. Carroll still can and still does play D on 2s and 3s. He's a spot-up guy, so his position on offense doesn't matter, 2 or 3.

Curious to see your contract offer, and minute allotment for this roster re: Demarre Carroll

 

[Game6Conley]

Those 14 players still add up to a decent chunk under the cap, meaning the Jazz can afford to upgrade the backup SF position. I hope that one player D Lindsey has in mind turns out to be someone obscure like Sonny Weems. (to replace Sap)

 

[Deleted member 848]

If the Jazz get Carroll, which I'm ok with, who do you let go? Ingles or Millsap?

This wouldn't be that tragic-- it'd more so be stupid on account of the fact that either Hood or Burks wouldn't see minutes, or one would need to see the majority of their minutes at the 1.

Anyone care to tell me how Burks' minutes played @ the 1 have been so successful thus far?

 

[Deleted member 848]

Those 14 players still add up to a decent chunk under the cap, meaning the Jazz can afford to upgrade the backup SF position. I hope that one player D Lindsey has in mind turns out to be someone obscure like Sonny Weems. (to replace Sap)

Ingles plays very competent D, and he canned 43% of his threes (1.3PG) post-ASB. I'm fine with him backing up Hayward for this season while we evaluate Burks and Hood at the 2 & Burke at the 1. Plus, unless we're signing 1-year contracts, we NEED to have that chunk of spare change to extend many of our players' contracts.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Because we had two. Millsap and Exum played great D.

But both were one-dimensional. Neither could shoot. DMC is a two-way player. He plays tremendous defense and he's a threat to score on the other end. Utah has always had players who were limited on one end (Boozer, AK, Memo, Big Al, etc.). And the team failed to contend because of it. If we can get a complete player, DO IT!

Yes, players might get a bit grumpy sometimes when they only play 20 minutes instead of 30. But there are always injuries throughout the season, so the averages will be a bit higher. And if Utah is winning 55+ games? That would certainly cure a lot of those problems.

 

[Coach Ellis]

System under Corbin (where Burks was a primary ball handler) vs. system under Snyder (where the wings initiate the offense frequently). I know some disagree, but I think Burks would be brilliant in Trey Burke's role from last year.

Give me a starting lineup of Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Carroll and Exum. Bring Booker, Lyles, Hood, Jingles and Burks off the bench. Move Trey for an asset, or have him compete with Cotton/Hanlan for minutes as the 3rd PG. Roll with it for a season and then re-assess where and how to use everyone for next year.

The versatility of that group is fantastic. Add spot minutes for Pleiss, Millsap, Cotton, etc. Continue focusing on player development through the season, and lock down your top 9 players for the playoffs.

 

[Stifle Tower]

^^
Not really concerned with Burks playing PG on offense. He was initiating the offense for Utah when Hayward would sit. It's the defensive side that concerns me. Can Hood and Burks off the bench handle opposing guards? Neither are stellar defenders.

 

[Deleted member 848]

But both were one-dimensional. Neither could shoot.

And yet one is a rookie, the second only got minutes from the Jazz having the biggest sequence of injuries at the 2 spot in franchise history, and they STILL went on a winning-rampage to close the season

DMC is a two-way player. He plays tremendous defense and he's a threat to score on the other end. Utah has always had players who were limited on one end (Boozer, AK, Memo, Big Al, etc.). And the team failed to contend because of it. If we can get a complete player, DO IT!

The Jazz could have a series of multiple complete players on this roster, along with one of the most promising players playing the 5 in franchise history. It is important that we manage our assets properly, we don't rush steps (a la Pelicans), and assess the pertinence of several players on this roster. Burks could have an absolute break-out season playing the 2 this year-- or he could spend most of his time on the court chasing around tiny PGs that he can't defend as well. Signing a player just because he can be had, and that he could maybe boost our win total by 2 wins in a season where our core is still going to be growing is simply short-sighted. This isn't 'the year'-- we have accumulated a stunningly-talented core, and it makes most sense to place them all in roles where they succeed. Hayward > Carroll, Burks at the 2 > Burks at the 1, and Burks + Hood holding down the 2 > Burks being shifted to the 1, Carroll dominating minutes at the 2, and Rodney Hood (aka statistically one of the most promising young ball-handlers in the NBA) playing a reduced role despite showing potential to being a 20ppg player.

Yes, players might get a bit grumpy sometimes when they only play 20 minutes instead of 30. But there are always injuries throughout the season, so the averages will be a bit higher. And if Utah is winning 55+ games? That would certainly cure a lot of those problems.

Our players are young. Placing them in roles where they don't succeed stunts their developments, diminishes the values of our assets, and hinders our team from a very realistic chance at championship contention over the next five years.

 

[Coach Ellis]

^^
Not really concerned with Burks playing PG on offense. He was initiating the offense for Utah when Hayward would sit. It's the defensive side that concerns me. Can Hood and Burks off the bench handle opposing guards? Neither are stellar defenders.

That's a relevant concern, but when Hayward sits I'd play Carroll, Hood and Burks. Carroll is lights out, Hood was better than expected, and Burks has to be an upgrade over Trey Burke's matador defense from last year. Hopefully you're matching these guys up against reserves and they have the talent (and size and athleticism) advantage.

 

[♪alt13]

Quite arbitrary, but I'll give this a shot.



Shooting and defending are two different "roles", Einstein. Also, Rodney Hood fills volume shooting well.

Lol. You sound a hair butt hurt. A butt hurt hair?

Green checks off the D and shooting box and is mediocre elsewhere. Burks checks off the creating his own shot box and is mediocre elsewhere. Both Burks and Hayward are pretty solid up and down the list but would be more dangerous next to a better shooter, imo.

We literally have like 5 potential volume shooters on this roster. We also have a very capable defensive team-- in case you forgot from last season somehow

Please list. We have no one on our roster in the same category of shooter as Green. Hood is the closest but he still isn't the threat Green is.

How about we see what we have with the PG play of Exum, Burke, Cotton, Hanlan, and Burks first. This isn't a do-or-die season for us-- lets assess the assets we currently have, cuz there's a good chance that some might be much better than anything else attainable for reasonable amounts of cash on the market.

Not going to pass on a guy in the hopes that one of these 3 blow up. That seems incredibly stupid to me.

Playing ~70% of Burks' minutes at PG seems incredibly stupid to me.

It could be. Thing is I'm not sure Burks is the best fit next to our other wings and PG's. Maybe we hit gold(silver would do just fine) with Burks as a combo guard maybe not. Either way I'm not sweating about moving Burke to give it a shot.

 

[Deleted member 848]

^^
Not really concerned with Burks playing PG on offense. He was initiating the offense for Utah when Hayward would sit. It's the defensive side that concerns me. Can Hood and Burks off the bench handle opposing guards? Neither are stellar defenders.

The Cavs performed fantastic defensive performances in the playoffs this year with JR Smith, Kyrie Irving and Iman "can't play off-ball D" Shumpert leading the charge on the guard-front.

 

[Game6Conley]

Ingles plays very competent D, and he canned 43% of his threes (1.3PG) post-ASB. I'm fine with him backing up Hayward for this season while we evaluate Burks and Hood at the 2 & Burke at the 1. Plus, unless we're signing 1-year contracts, we NEED to have that chunk of spare change to extend many of our players' contracts.

I have no issue with Ingles. Ingles and Baby Sap as the backup SF's just seems underwhelming. I don't want to believe they're going to go into FA and basically stand pat. there's due diligence to be done!

The player would be for a 1 year deal with some sort of option like Booker. thats best for the Jazz. A player like Weems is actually worth less in the NBA than on his Russian team so he's probably a decent candidate at 28 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0rg3JS-p7o

 

[Deleted member 848]

Lol. You sound a hair butt hurt. A butt hurt hair?

Perhaps. I'll adjust my tone accordingly.

Green checks off the D and shooting box and is mediocre elsewhere. Burks checks off the creating his own shot box and is mediocre elsewhere. Both Burks and Hayward are pretty solid up and down the list but would be more dangerous next to a better shooter, imo.

Hayward and Burks will both be dangerous playing next to Hood, who has shown to be a MUCH more versatile scorer in his ROOKIE YEAR than Danny Green in the prime of his NBA career.

Please list. We have no one on our roster in the same category of shooter as Green. Hood is the closest but he still isn't the threat Green is.

Lmao. Same category of shooter? How did this prolific shooter completely lay goose-eggs in the playoffs against the Clippers then? Are we really willing to judge Hood as always being worse after only like half a season's worth of NBA games?

Not going to pass on a guy in the hopes that one of these 3 blow up. That seems incredibly stupid to me.

Getting all excited about a prolific shooter who averaged 34% from the field in the 2015 playoffs seems incredibly stupid to me.

It could be. Thing is I'm not sure Burks is the best fit next to our other wings and PG's. Maybe we hit gold(silver would do just fine) with Burks as a combo guard maybe not. Either way I'm not sweating about moving Burke to give it a shot.

Moving Burke makes more sense if Hanlan or Cotton make him expendable.

 

[Stoked]

But both were one-dimensional. Neither could shoot. DMC is a two-way player. He plays tremendous defense and he's a threat to score on the other end. Utah has always had players who were limited on one end (Boozer, AK, Memo, Big Al, etc.). And the team failed to contend because of it. If we can get a complete player, DO IT!

Yes, players might get a bit grumpy sometimes when they only play 20 minutes instead of 30. But there are always injuries throughout the season, so the averages will be a bit higher. And if Utah is winning 55+ games? That would certainly cure a lot of those problems.

And the post I replied to was talking about permiter D. Only one aspect of the game. Never said or indicated they did anythinelse well or poorly.