As of today, is it fair to doubt the organization's commitment to the playoffs next year?

[fishonjazz]

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

I think that matching Gordon Hayward contract offer after his crummy year was a gamble

 

[Fabtrey]

we are doing it the right way. patience is a virtue. let's hope exum becomes exponentially better. we also need to keep trey. he will be our valuable backup. and for the love of God, i hope rudy becomes offensive force. we will shock the world if that happens.

 

[Stoked]

Realism hurts these guys they believe Jazz brass are magic or they blame the Millers.

He left of Hood (from trades)
trading up for Gobert
Jury is CLEARLY out on Exum
Hayward and Burks contracts

All gambles IMO.

So stop pretending you represent truth KOC Begone.

Numb perhaps but certainly not you.

 

[Hotdog]

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

Hard to argue with any of that.

But I would say his resume is pretty short, and it is a little murky about when he really took over, and about how much all of the decisions were all his. Even to this day he constantly insists it's group decisions where everybody has imput.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I think that matching Gordon Hayward contract offer after his crummy year was a gamble

Ehh... that screed about the cap explosion that I dismissed was god damn real and they have to have known that. They couldn't let him walk for nothing. I think it would've been more of a gamble to let him walk.

I would say that the Burks extension qualifies as a slight gamble. I was on board at the time, and I still am at the moment, but the shoulder injury and the team's rise with his absence (which I view as COMPLETELY coincidental [anyone paying the slightest amount of attention knows that Gobert playing and Kanter not was the major difference]) would cast reasonable doubt on the move to some.

Everything in life is a gamble to some extent, and running an NBA franchise is an extremely heavy extension of that. It's important to distinguish between the day-to-day stuff (which you could argue extensions and matching offer sheets are usually more in this category, I generally would), and things that are exceptional in their risk (such as letting your best players in their prime walk for nothing, after missing the playoffs by one game in a brutal conference, then tanking hard).

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

If those three stagnate, we are competing for titles.

You sure about that?

 

[NAOS]

Funny moment here:

It seriously blows my mind how many Jazz fans are losin' their **** over this free agency period. It's as if some of you guys WANT us on the treadmill again.

I want development. We've rebuilt the team, and now it's time to grow the team. Throwing in mismatched pieces just for the hell of it is gonna screw things up. This is a long process, and it's stupid to shake things up now. If we want the maximum development of our pieces, we need to develop them. I know, this logic is too much for some of you to handle, but just trust me. Developing players takes development. Development takes time. I can't believe I have to literally spell this out for some of you. It is impossible to go from 10th seed to contender overnight, unless you sign LeBron James. Unfortunately, we have no such luck.

What we DO have are around seven players that are 25 or younger, and 48 minutes to distribute between them. Let's develop them, raise their stock. And if/when things don't work out for us, we'll know for sure what holes need filling, and which players need trading.

But until then, can you guys just ... chill out, for one damn season?

Xsy (a good poster), throws out a post with strawmen and condescension. When I ask him to clarify (below), he states his vitriol wasn't borne from reading things around here (see bold, below). That seems inconsistent with what he wrote above, but whatever. Still, 8 people like the post.

Who suggested that we do this??

Most of the FA and trade ideas I've seen floating around on Twitter have been garbage. I don't read trade or signing proposals on JazzFanz, so I can't point fingers at anyone here.

Even if people wanted us to sign a good guy like Middleton, I still think the 7 young players we have now is still more than enough for our coaching staff to work with for one season.

Dalamon, of course, thinks it's the bee's knees, and attempts to re-ground this in a discussion about jazzfanzers. Particularly with me ("bulldog").

Sig-wrothy.

Gonna copy and paste the link to your post any-time I see the mouth-breathers bitching about a bulldog or something.

Funny because it shows how Dalamon will accept anything that supports his slant on something. Even if it clearly doesn't apply. Enjoy.

 

[NAOS]

Dalamon's coming of age story will be when he finally achieves his own synthesis between the universalizing scientific stuff of his university years, with the suffocating universalizing religious screed that is haunting him now. A new kind of Imam. Derivative as hell, but, yeah new kind of derivative-as-hell Imam.

 

[franklin]

Ehh... that screed about the cap explosion that I dismissed was god damn real and they have to have known that. They couldn't let him walk for nothing. I think it would've been more of a gamble to let him walk.

I would say that the Burks extension qualifies as a slight gamble. I was on board at the time, and I still am at the moment, but the shoulder injury and the team's rise with his absence (which I view as COMPLETELY coincidental [anyone paying the slightest amount of attention knows that Gobert playing and Kanter not was the major difference]) would cast reasonable doubt on the move to some.

Everything in life is a gamble to some extent, and running an NBA franchise is an extremely heavy extension of that. It's important to distinguish between the day-to-day stuff (which you could argue extensions and matching offer sheets are usually more in this category, I generally would), and things that are exceptional in their risk (such as letting your best players in their prime walk for nothing, after missing the playoffs by one game in a brutal conference, then tanking hard).

With hindsight we were all wrong about Hayward's extension (this coming from the guy who was blasted days before his contract as a troll for pushing for Hayward at way more than just about anyone wanted). The Jazz had the benefit of foresight on the TV contract that we did not. Hayward's agent had the benefit of shopping for a max deal from multiple teams for 9 full months. The industry knew Hayward was a max deal, Haywards agent knew he would be maxed, Hayward knew he could go easy in a tank year and still get max coin.

The only people who didn't know was us. DL didn't gamble with that contract. $90 mil cap next year puts Hayward at about $11mm under the old scenario, which was pretty much the consensus that we all wanted him sign for. There was no gamble whatsoever.

 

[franklin]

Oh, and I couldn't have been more wrong about the Burks contract blunder. It's basically a MLE at this point, and a steal like the other two.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

Lmao. Not a gamble to ask the Millers for millions to buy a late first-rounder? Hilarious case of 20/20 hindsight. Both this and the GS trade were grand-slams.


Step away from the ledge, bro.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Dalamon's coming of age story will be when he finally achieves his own synthesis between the universalizing scientific stuff of his university years, with the suffocating universalizing religious screed that is haunting him now. A new kind of Imam. Derivative as hell, but, yeah new kind of derivative-as-hell Imam.

Tell me how u really feel, bruagh.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

With hindsight we were all wrong about Hayward's extension (this coming from the guy who was blasted days before his contract as a troll for pushing for Hayward at way more than just about anyone wanted). The Jazz had the benefit of foresight on the TV contract that we did not. Hayward's agent had the benefit of shopping for a max deal from multiple teams for 9 full months. The industry knew Hayward was a max deal, Haywards agent knew he would be maxed, Hayward knew he could go easy in a tank year and still get max coin.

The only people who didn't know was us. DL didn't gamble with that contract. $90 mil cap next year puts Hayward at about $11mm under the old scenario, which was pretty much the consensus that we all wanted him sign for. There was no gamble whatsoever.

If we didnt have hayward today with all the cap space couldnt you see us chasing a better player? Or drafting Kelly Oubre to back up Hood.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

He left of Hood (from trades)
trading up for Gobert
Jury is CLEARLY out on Exum
Hayward and Burks contracts

All gambles IMO.

So stop pretending you represent truth KOC Begone.

Numb perhaps but certainly not you.

So, leaving off Hood from trades is now a positive because we dont know what he is offering.
He didnt trade up for Gobert he bought a pick. He has now done that once perfectly. That doesnt erase blunders especially how he handled Kanter should be a huge blunder. I dont care if he didn't fit you move him for real assets. Thunder had players like Marrow and Jones on that team that we could have used over dleaguers.

 

[Stoked]

So, leaving off Hood from trades is now a positive because we dont know what he is offering.
He didnt trade up for Gobert he bought a pick. He has now done that once perfectly. That doesnt erase blunders especially how he handled Kanter should be a huge blunder. I dont care if he didn't fit you move him for real assets. Thunder had players like Marrow and Jones on that team that we could have used over dleaguers.

That's just it, all your "blunders" are not blunders. It's just not what you would do. But guess what? It's working. The Jazz are defensively elite, young, hungry, talented and deep. The FO has loaded the staff and brought the Jazz into the present. Despite how horrible you act they are DL and Snyder have this team humming and ready for a big year.

You just can't stand it.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Nope I'm fine the only thing we have that is elite is Gobery. You might not be able to admit that. I'm a huge fan of the Jazz. Just feel that they settle on nonstars trying to boost them. Heck even during the Boozer days we would have been better off with AK at the five. But, time will tell if Hayward is overrated. I can guaguaranguarantee that most GM would have gotten more for Kanter. Plus, we keep collecting picks and we dont do anything with them. Im not talking about movinOubre has the ceiling of a allstar and Lyles a ceiling as a starter.

 

[franklin]

Lmao. Not a gamble to ask the Millers for millions to buy a late first-rounder? Hilarious case of 20/20 hindsight. Both this and the GS trade were grand-slams.


Step away from the ledge, bro.

It's millions numberica. MILLIONS! BUT IT'S MILLIONZ!!!!! That's like big numbers and stuff, man!!!

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Lmao. Not a gamble to ask the Millers for millions to buy a late first-rounder? Hilarious case of 20/20 hindsight. Both this and the GS trade were grand-slams.


Step away from the ledge, bro.

Not a gamble. Buying a first round pick for a few million is nothing. The Jazz have been spending well under the cap for a minute.

 

[Stoked]

Nope I'm fine the only thing we have that is elite is Gobery. You might not be able to admit that. I'm a huge fan of the Jazz. Just feel that they settle on nonstars trying to boost them. Heck even during the Boozer days we would have been better off with AK at the five. But, time will tell if Hayward is overrated. I can guaguaranguarantee that most GM would have gotten more for Kanter. Plus, we keep collecting picks and we dont do anything with them. Im not talking about movinOubre has the ceiling of a allstar and Lyles a ceiling as a starter.

Once again it's your arm chair GMing that makes you so bitter.

You just know Oubre is better

You just know Hayward is a scrub.

You just know what most "good" GMs would be able to get.

You don't know a thing about any of that. Your opinion is not truth.

I'll trust in the professionals that are building this great team right before our eyes. Just like you will watch it. The difference is that I will enjoy it.

 

[Siro]

Once again it's your arm chair GMing that makes you so bitter.

You just know Oubre is better

You just know Hayward is a scrub.

You just know what most "good" GMs would be able to get.

You don't know a thing about any of that. Your opinion is not truth.

I'll trust in the professionals that are building this great team right before our eyes. Just like you will watch it. The difference is that I will enjoy it.

Cy's posts are armchair GMing. That idiot Mission Accomplished dropping a deuce each time he touches a keyboard doesn't even deserve to be called that.