As of today, is it fair to doubt the organization's commitment to the playoffs next year?

[NAOS]

Have not seen anybody say that yet. Link?

Perhaps you can't feel the starkness of language in the following exchange?

Seriously dudes, if you didn't see my post in another thread.....

...in other words, he's written about this repeatedly...

Consider the Jazz and us fans blessed. It could be so, so much worse.

Visit the Lakers board at https://lakernation.com/forums/index.php?/forum/4-lakers-talk/ and go to the Lakers Free Agency Discussion thread. They're on suicide watch over there.

Not only enjoy their pain, but thank your lucky stars the Jazz snapped out of compete/rebuild soon enough to actually get us to where we are today in a relatively short time.

In Hayward's name we pray...

Cappy tries to inject a little sanity...

Agree, except Rudy is the reason we are spared a long painful rebuild. I love Hayward and he's a very good player, but Utah is still a lottery team without Rudy.

... but Peterzz has to reground the discussion in the pure good works of the FO, and the absolute ludicrous actions of other teams (namely, the Lakers)... Anyway, it is full of unsubstantiated and stark claims.

Rudy is the result of good decisions, e.g. being aggressive in the draft, stockpiling assets, great preparation. Rudy was lucky, but not an accident.

The Lakers had the opportunity to draft #2 and grab probably the best player in the draft, Okafur, and drafted Russell instead, all because they were banking on luring LA. They put all their eggs in one basket thinking Kobe, their current roster, the LA life, and a #2 pick would net a star in FA. It didn't and won't.

Had the Jazz held on to Deron and tried to compete and rebuild further, we'd be in the cellar with the Lakers.

Then you come in and participate...

This.
Every jazz fan should be pretty Damn happy with this team and organization right now

Whether you want to admit it or not, these kinds of sentiments SHUT DOWN critical thinking about basketball and the business of basketball. The language on that side of things is stark, that much is clear.

Nobody on "my side" has said that it couldn't be worse. Nobody on "my side" isn't feeling appreciation that we've come as far as we have. So when "Peterzz and Dalamon's" side makes all these implications that we're unhappy or "mouth breathers" it does a huge disservice.


BTW, these posts are just from the last few pages of this one thread. In fact, it's going on in multiple thread across multiple pages.

 

[gregbroncs]

Lindsey's gambles:
-Trading up for Burke
-letting Millsap, Carroll, and Al walk for nothing in order to...
-tank (they got Exum)

By my scorecard, his gambles are below .500. Burke hasn't been good, And Exum hasn't been particularly great either (they're both young, so we don't have to trade them Fs, but they haven't proven to be As yet either). Meanwhile, two all-stars were born, and one became one of the better wings in the NBA when they walked.

Lindsey's greatest achievements thus far haven't really been gambles. Getting Gobert at #27 is 26 teams being completely ****ing retarded and Hood being there that late was also weird (although he deserves credit for acquiring that pick). He deserves credit for getting Gobert all the same, but the Jazz spent squat in assets to get it, hardly a gamble. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here a bit. But on these points, the Jazz could easily have kept Carroll and Millsap and STILL gotten Hood (with their own pick) and Gobert (with their own pick) even if they were making the playoffs.

Things have started to go well on his watch, but it's important to be honest with ourselves. From what information is available, I can only say I have faith in his vision and overall resume, and that he's shown a willingness to work the market. But his swings for the fences haven't yielded anything... yet.

I don't count letting those guys walk as a gamble. It was a decision that had to be made or be stuck in mediocrity. Drafting Exum was a gamble, buying Gobert was a gamble (though a low risk one), matching a max contract for Hayward was a gamble, Trading for Burke was a gamble, And letting Hayward go to FA was a gamble. A few of those seem to be bad gambles, I'd say he's done pretty well though.

 

[gregbroncs]

What happens if Oubre isn't better? Will you admit it?

LOL. You expect the guy who still insists that Hayward is a scrub after being proven 1,000,000 percent wrong to admit to being wrong about something else?

 

[fishonjazz]

Perhaps you can't feel the starkness of language in the following exchange?



...in other words, he's written about this repeatedly...



Cappy tries to inject a little sanity...



... but Peterzz has to reground the discussion in the pure good works of the FO, and the absolute ludicrous actions of other teams (namely, the Lakers)... Anyway, it is full of unsubstantiated and stark claims.



Then you come in and participate...



Whether you want to admit it or not, these kinds of sentiments SHUT DOWN critical thinking about basketball and the business of basketball. The language on that side of things is stark, that much is clear.

Nobody on "my side" has said that it couldn't be worse. Nobody on "my side" isn't feeling appreciation that we've come as far as we have. So when "Peterzz and Dalamon's" side makes all these implications that we're unhappy or "mouth breathers" it does a huge disservice.


BTW, these posts are just from the last few pages of this one thread. In fact, it's going on in multiple thread across multiple pages.

You said be happy with 100% of the front office decisions.
I have not seen anyone say that.

I'm happy with the team and front office and think everyone should be. We have a very young, very talented and very exciting young team.
But the front office can always do better and I think everyone knows that.
You are just being a dick like usual. Carry on

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Dalamon's coming of age story will be when he finally achieves his own synthesis between the universalizing scientific stuff of his university years, with the suffocating universalizing religious screed that is haunting him now. A new kind of Imam. Derivative as hell, but, yeah new kind of derivative-as-hell Imam.

And here, it appears, is the ultimate end of the natural progression from a debate about roster building strategies to mean-spirited and totally unnecessary personal attacks greatly disproportionate to the importance of the topic being discussed.

Well done NAOS, well done!

You don't have to turn every discussion on this forum into an opportunity to be a dick.

 

[fishonjazz]

Perhaps you can't feel the starkness of language in the following exchange?



...in other words, he's written about this repeatedly...



Cappy tries to inject a little sanity...



... but Peterzz has to reground the discussion in the pure good works of the FO, and the absolute ludicrous actions of other teams (namely, the Lakers)... Anyway, it is full of unsubstantiated and stark claims.



Then you come in and participate...



Whether you want to admit it or not, these kinds of sentiments SHUT DOWN critical thinking about basketball and the business of basketball. The language on that side of things is stark, that much is clear.

Nobody on "my side" has said that it couldn't be worse. Nobody on "my side" isn't feeling appreciation that we've come as far as we have. So when "Peterzz and Dalamon's" side makes all these implications that we're unhappy or "mouth breathers" it does a huge disservice.


BTW, these posts are just from the last few pages of this one thread. In fact, it's going on in multiple thread across multiple pages.

I would have liked to get splitter or a different backup 5.
I would like to get George hill.

Still, we have an awesome roster and coach and most of that is due to the front office.
I'm happy. You should be too imo but if you are not, that's ok too

 

[NAOS]

You said be happy with 100% of the front office decisions.
I have not seen anyone say that.

I'm happy with the team and front office and think everyone should be. We have a very young, very talented and very exciting young team.
But the front office can always do better and I think everyone knows that.
You are just being a dick like usual. Carry on

mmhmm

 

[NAOS]

I would have liked to get splitter or a different backup 5.
I would like to get George hill.

Still, we have an awesome roster and coach and most of that is due to the front office.
I'm happy. You should be too imo but if you are not, that's ok too

Splitter for cap space would have been great.

 

[NAOS]

And here, it appears, is the ultimate end of the natural progression from a debate about roster building strategies to mean-spirited and totally unnecessary personal attacks greatly disproportionate to the importance of the topic being discussed.

Well done NAOS, well done!

You don't have to turn every discussion on this forum into an opportunity to be a dick.

you couldn't find one of Dalamon doing the same? You must have an agenda. Well done!

(BTW, if you want to find a pestering post from Dalamon about THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE, then just breeze through about 7 or 8 different jazz-forum thread and look for the word "bulldog". Do it. TIA)

 

[Carbon13]

**** everybody on Jazzfanz!


What are we talking about?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

you couldn't find one of Dalamon doing the same? You must have an agenda. Well done!

(BTW, if you want to find a pestering post from Dalamon about THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE, then just breeze through about 7 or 8 different jazz-forum thread and look for the word "bulldog". Do it. TIA)

Yep, I could. But you're so consistently a dick, and go to such great pains to be a consistent dick, that in terms of dickeshness, you tower over Dalamon.

It is notable that your defense was not to object to being called a dick but rather to deflect by arguing that you're not the only dick. I'll take that as an admission as to your dickeshness.

 

[fishonjazz]

Splitter for cap space would have been great.

Ya it would have been and sorry for the comment about you acting like a dick.

The front office has done nothing this off-season and so criticism is justified. Yet I think that there probably were not many good opportunities for the jazz in the free agent market and I think the jazz plan might just be to let the cake bake. Which alot of us think is an ok strategy

 

[NAOS]

Yep, I could. But you're so consistently a dick, and go to such great pains to be a consistent dick, that in terms of dickeshness, you tower over Dalamon.

It is notable that your defense was not to object to being called a dick but rather to deflect by arguing that you're not the only dick. I'll take that as an admission as to your dickeshness.

so, what's your point?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

so, what's your point?

My larger point is that it is entirely possible to discuss such matters without resorting to personal insults. I understand when discussing politics and policy (which have much greater stakes) that it inflames the passions and is thus more likely to devolve into shouting matches and insults. But such is not the case with low stakes, often highly hypothetical, discussions about Jazz FO strategy. This was a very interesting thread, and I was sorry and annoyed to see it degenerate into personal insults as it did. You are, by my casual observation, often the guilty party, or at least contribute to, Jazz threads turning personal, and I wish you would stop doing so. It would make it a more enjoyable experience for me and everyone else. Save your insults for the General forum.

I apologize that I called you a Dick. Fishonjazz was right. But also please stop being one.

As for the thread itself, I have enough hope/confidence in the potential ability of Hood, Burks and Exum (in particular, but less in Burke) that I don't mind rolling the dice on them a bit longer to see what develops. I'm not, for example, convinced that at the end of the day and with some more development, Hood won't be a more valuable piece than, say, Kris Middleton (who I really like), and I firmly believe that soon Hood will be a better player than Carroll, as another example. Not diving into the FA market at this time does not eliminate the FO's options moving forward in terms of trades or other moves, but I understand what they are doing, and I'm willing to give them some time to see if they made the right call.

 

[franklin]

My larger point is that it is entirely possible to discuss such matters without resorting to personal insults. I understand when discussing politics and policy (which have much greater stakes) that it inflames the passions and is thus more likely to devolve into shouting matches and insults. But such is not the case with low stakes, often highly hypothetical, discussions about Jazz FO strategy. This was a very interesting thread, and I was sorry and annoyed to see it degenerate into personal insults as it did. You are, by my casual observation, often the guilty party, or at least contribute to, Jazz threads turning personal, and I wish you would stop doing so. It would make it a more enjoyable experience for me and everyone else. Save your insults for the General forum.

I apologize that I called you a Dick. Fishonjazz was right. But also please stop being one.

As for the thread itself, I have enough hope/confidence in the potential ability of Hood, Burks and Exum (in particular, but less in Burke) that I don't mind rolling the dice on them a bit longer to see what develops. I'm not, for example, convinced that at the end of the day and with some more development, Hood won't be a more valuable piece than, say, Kris Middleton (who I really like), and I firmly believe that soon Hood will be a better player than Carroll, as another example. Not diving into the FA market at this time does not eliminate the FO's options moving forward in terms of trades or other moves, but I understand what they are doing, and I'm willing to give them some time to see if they made the right call.

Do you want to start a list of every character trait that should be stripped from Jazzfanz so you can revel in your version of basketball discussion purity?


Between you and vinylone bitching about the character here... maybe we should all become vanilla posters like stoked has (I know, not his fault, at work, the man is looking blah blah blah).

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Do you want to start a list of every character trait that should be stripped from Jazzfanz so you can revel in your version of basketball discussion purity?


Between you and vinylone bitching about the character here... maybe we should all become vanilla posters like stoked has (I know, not his fault, at work, the man is looking blah blah blah).

Not at all. I don't see anywhere where I've even in the slightest bit suggested that we strip every character trait from posters. Nor am I, or have I, suggested that we should all be vanilla posters. You're arguing against a strawman, not against anything I've said or even remotely implied.

Transparent hyperbole doesn't help you make your case. If you want to discuss this, please begin by referring to something I've actually said, or implied, not some hyperbolic misrepresentation that your mind has invented whole cloth.

One can display a whole, diverse range of personality traits without resorting to personal insults/attacks and just plain acting like a dick. I would think this point is obvious enough that it doesn't need stating.

p.s. I like Stoked just fine. He's grown on me, and I appreciate his contributions. We still have our differences, but that's to be expected.

 

[fishonjazz]

Not at all. I don't see anywhere where I've even in the slightest bit suggested that we strip every character trait from posters. Nor am I, or have I, suggested that we should all be vanilla posters. You're arguing against a strawman, not against anything I've said or even remotely implied.

Transparent hyperbole doesn't help you make your case. If you want to discuss this, please begin by referring to something I've actually said, or implied, not some hyperbolic misrepresentation that your mind has invented whole cloth.

One can display a whole, diverse range of personality traits without resorting to personal insults/attacks and just plain acting like a dick. I would think this point is obvious enough that it doesn't need stating.

p.s. I like Stoked just fine. He's grown on me, and I appreciate his contributions.

Solid response.

 

[Jamezz]

Do you want to start a list of every character trait that should be stripped from Jazzfanz so you can revel in your version of basketball discussion purity?


Between you and vinylone bitching about the character here... maybe we should all become vanilla posters like stoked has (I know, not his fault, at work, the man is looking blah blah blah).

Already many vanilla posters coated with toughness...

 

[Stoked]

Do you want to start a list of every character trait that should be stripped from Jazzfanz so you can revel in your version of basketball discussion purity?


Between you and vinylone bitching about the character here... maybe we should all become vanilla posters like stoked has (I know, not his fault, at work, the man is looking blah blah blah).

Sigh. Yeah...damn mods...

Edit: also please don't all become the same. Boring as hell if that happened. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[franklin]

Not at all. I don't see anywhere where I've even in the slightest bit suggested that we strip every character trait from posters. Nor am I, or have I, suggested that we should all be vanilla posters. You're arguing against a strawman, not against anything I've said or even remotely implied.

Transparent hyperbole doesn't help you make your case. If you want to discuss this, please begin by referring to something I've actually said, or implied, not some hyperbolic misrepresentation that your mind has invented whole cloth.

One can display a whole, diverse range of personality traits without resorting to personal insults/attacks and just plain acting like a dick. I would think this point is obvious enough that it doesn't need stating.

p.s. I like Stoked just fine. He's grown on me, and I appreciate his contributions. We still have our differences, but that's to be expected.

Are you trying to imitate Spock?