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John Hollinger points out why the Jazz are screwed, Deron is leaving, and we wont make the playoffs:

VINYLONE said:
This is such ****ing garbage its unbelievable. Lebron was a ****ing hack of epic proportions
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What makes LeBron so bad? Oh. Right.

The negative media reports that you have fully bought into.

Meanwhile, you pretend anything negative said about Deron by these same outlights is an attack on a holy symbol; it's wrong. How do you know? Well, it appears to be faith.

Funny how often that becomes blatant contradiction.

and now writers want to apply his failing decisions to other players...they're all looking for a story line. All of them.
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So far as it goes, I'm not surprised that you side with Deron -- you hated Sloan, really.

But the part that I find most egregious is, simply, how you want to concurrently bury any criticism of Deron and/or pretend he had nothing to do with Sloan's ouster.

Deron clearly wanted this. Many of his biggest supporters did as well. But at least have the honesty to own it.

Maybe the Jazz should do what the Packers did and hire a political snake oil salesman to further obfuscate the matter.
 
JAZZFAN_2814 said:
Deron clearly wanted this. Many of his biggest supporters did as well. But at least have the honesty to own it.
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Plenty of fans, including myself, wanted Sloan gone. I didn't dislike Sloan, I didn't want him fired. But I felt his unwillingness to adapt to today's game and his rigid system was holding the franchise back. Instead of going out and getting the best players, the front office was forced to go out and get the players best suited for the Jazz system.

But I didn't want him to leave like this. This circus. I wanted to be watching that press conference at home on a summer afternoon, shortly after the Jazz had finally brought home the O'Brien Trophy. At the very least, I didn't want the guy to be hanging up the clipboard a week before the all-star break.

Did Deron want it? I have no doubt in my mind. Regardless, I don't think he wanted it like this. I'm sure he respects Sloan on a certain level, but felt the team needed someone else. What if Deron knows something we don't? What if, despite all the leaguewide talk, there are players in the league that would love to come here and play with Deron, but have no interest in doing it under Jerry Sloan? We always talk about how big name free agents don't want to play in this market, but surely that can't be the only reason, right? Are we really going to assume that every player in today's NBA is only interested in winning championships if they can do it in New York, California or Florida?
 
JJ Rage said:
Did Deron want it? I have no doubt in my mind. Regardless, I don't think he wanted it like this. I'm sure he respects Sloan on a certain level, but felt the team needed someone else. What if Deron knows something we don't?
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Careful, that last question as to Deron's knowledge is tantamount to "lies" and "hate" around here.

What if, despite all the leaguewide talk, there are players in the league that would love to come here and play with Deron, but have no interest in doing it under Jerry Sloan?
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Yes. Jerry Sloan was the problem.

Not a white-bread, small market that waters down its alcohol and has no diversity of culture, or media attention.

So many guys would want to play for a team that is in bum**** nowhere, where they are likely a minority in the same sense that extraterrestrials are, with miserly ownership that will trade assets mid-season just to dump payroll. I mean, who could have a problem with that?

Also, it's really fun to be the best at your position and not even make an All-NBA team over Chauncey Billups. Ask Deron if he enjoyed that one.

We always talk about how big name free agents don't want to play in this market, but surely that can't be the only reason, right?
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Oh, surely not. I'm sure Michael, Kobe, Scottie, Charles and even LeBron would have given Utah a look.

Except for Jerry Sloan.

So when a scrub like Derek Harper says "you go to Utah" what he really means is "you go play for Jerry Sloan". And while this is going on for, you know, ever, there's a huge conspiracy to hide their feelings about Sloan, and transfer this hate to a place called 'Utah', which is why someone is always making fun of the state and its hick fans.

That was Sloan's power. That's how ****ing insane he was, and feared because of it.

That's why, when LeBron James continuously calls Sloan one of the best coaches in the league, we know just the opposite: that Sloan was one of the worst, and that LeBron was scared away from one of the best franchises and cities he'd ever been to by that maggot.

Are we really going to assume that every player in today's NBA is only interested in winning championships if they can do it in New York, California or Florida?
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No. Of course not.

Tim Duncan still plays in the NBA.
 
Hey, I'm not saying it was all Sloan's fault all along that no one wanted to come here. I'm just suggesting that there has to be a few players that value winning over whether or not the city they're playing in is a good place to party.
 
JJ Rage said:
Hey, I'm not saying it was all Sloan's fault all along that no one wanted to come here. I'm just suggesting that there has to be a few players that value winning over whether or not the city they're playing in is a good place to party.
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And if you value winning, then it makes sense that you'd be disgusted by the presence of one of the only active-HOF coaches, third all-time on the career wins list.
 
JJ Rage said:
Just because a coach is a Hall of Famer doesn't make him a good fit for certain players.
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Yes. I know. Sloan was the big impediment to all the talent coming in. Not the fact that Utah, as a selfsame factor, turned them off.

No. Not even when this is openly stated over and over.

I mean, what makes sense about that? I get the feeling that you've never lived in one of the big cities, or really experienced what differences there are between them and a place like Salt Lake; can one get used to Utah? Sure. But how many are going to be attracted to it enough to make that sacrifice at all? And why should they?

Oh. To win. Right, especially since Sloan was standing in the way of that.

As far as these certain players that wouldn't fit with Sloan, yeah, they're of the Deron Williams typology, within at least one strata or phylum of NBA player.

I generally categorize these guys as losers. Sad to say, but Deron may just have exposed himself as one of these guys.

They also tend to hate boring, media-lite cities even as they bitch about media attention...to the media.

In other news, Sloan is gone! Utah's future looks bright, huh?
 

JJ Rage's Avatar

Join Date
May 2010
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SLC

How utterly predictable.

Jesus. This board's myopic, insular and provincial nature is at least half the entertainment value.
 
You seem really bent out of shape over a few ideas. I haven't presented anything other than a different perspective. At no point did I state anything as a matter-of-fact, nor did I claim it was actually my opinion that star players would love to play here if it wasn't for Sloan. I posed the question, just wondering if it was possible that a player would evaluate the coach and the system when looking at possible playing destinations, as well as the destination itself. And I've certainly at no point said Jerry Sloan was absolutely standing in the way of victories, I simply offered the possibility that he was standing in the way of the team acquiring certain types of players, which I don't think is beyond reason.

And since you seem so keen to jumping to conclusions, I'll point out that I've only lived in Salt Lake for 8 of my 27 years on this Earth. I've moved around quite a bit in my life, and spent quite a bit of time living in and around cities larger than here, namely Philadelphia and Washington D.C., and spent many weekends in New York City while living in New Jersey. I'm not exactly a world traveler, but I'm certainly not a born and bred Utahn with no idea of what life is like outside of the valley.


But please, continue picking apart my posts and responding to select sentences in order to fit them into the narrative you've created for anyone that dares to even suggest that Deron isn't entirely to blame and Jerry Sloan isn't an infallible god.
 
This is the part where you dissect my post and treat speculation as if were my steadfast opinion. Go ahead. I can wait.
 
JAZZFAN_2814 said:

JJ Rage's Avatar

Join Date
May 2010
Location
SLC

How utterly predictable.

Jesus. This board's myopic, insular and provincial nature is at least half the entertainment value.
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Dude stfu. You are using where this guy is from to somehow support your long winded, boring *** comments. The most epic of fails.
 
JAZZFAN_2814 said:
What makes LeBron so bad? Oh. Right.

The negative media reports that you have fully bought into.

Meanwhile, you pretend anything negative said about Deron by these same outlights is an attack on a holy symbol; it's wrong. How do you know? Well, it appears to be faith.

Funny how often that becomes blatant contradiction.

So far as it goes, I'm not surprised that you side with Deron -- you hated Sloan, really.

But the part that I find most egregious is, simply, how you want to concurrently bury any criticism of Deron and/or pretend he had nothing to do with Sloan's ouster.

Deron clearly wanted this. Many of his biggest supporters did as well. But at least have the honesty to own it.

Maybe the Jazz should do what the Packers did and hire a political snake oil salesman to further obfuscate the matter.
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Wrong, wrong and wrong. I dont need any media reports to tell me that Lebron strung along his team and made the situation worse with a 1/2 hour special on his decision. Those things happened. I fully accept his right to go to another team. The Cavs didnt own James. He played for them, fulfilled his contract, he moved on. It was the way he moved on that made him an idiot.

In regards to Williams, the things being said about Williams are conjecture at best. If you think the front office all of a sudden turned on Sloan at the behest of Williams, I dont know what to tell you. You can believe that and I can believe otherwise. I have no doubt that Williams argument with Sloan was the straw the broke the camels back.

As I stated a few times here on the board, Sloan did not look right to me this year...sickly, to be honest. So, yeah, maybe he did lose steam. Also, just because you can say things doesnt make it true. I never hated Sloan...I just thought his time had passed.
 
JJ Rage said:
Yes. You "predicted" where I lived after quoting a post in which my location was advertised in plain view. Quite the gumshoe, I must say.
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So following the logic path of that quote it would seem he's saying anybody from or living in Utah has nothing to bring to the argument. So to continue using his logic and following further down this path I guess you are a "ratard" (as we all are in Utah).

Yes JF2814 I checked and my work is NOT pager friendly so I actually have no way to confirm if what I said is true.
 
JAZZFAN_2814 said:

JJ Rage's Avatar

Join Date
May 2010
Location
SLC

How utterly predictable.

Jesus. This board's myopic, insular and provincial nature is at least half the entertainment value.
Click to expand...

Do you look in the mirror, the hand lotion on the bedside nightstand, and flex ala Patrick Bateman as you type this ********? Be honest.
 
Personally, I don't think it will be a problem for the Jazz to attract free agents. If the Jazz offer up enticing packages to marquee players, they will come.

IMO, Sloan should have retired after Boozer/Korver/Matthews left. That is not only a huge chunk of the scoring load of last season (at least a third), but with two of those guys those were key guys in what you were trying to accomplish out on the basketball floor. Millsap isn't Boozer, he isn't as talented and isn't as strong. Al Jefferson doesn't really fit that well into Sloan's system and he has struggled finding his role all season.

Sloan should have stepped down gracefully and let the organization go in different directions before this season started. Now, we're struggling to secure a playoff spot when many predicted us to be at least "middle of the pack" in the west. We struggle against weak teams and we struggle at home. We've never struggled at home.

I think the Jazz should try to trade some guys for draft picks and build around a Dwill - Jefferson core. I think if you bring in another guy that can compliment Dwill on the perimeter (ala Hornacek when Stockton was here) then we'd have a much better tandem.

I think the Jazz should package Millsap and Miles for a decent SG/SF player, resign AK in the offseason and start Fes, Jefferson, "decent SG/SF" Dwill and AK. ... bring Bell and Memo off the bench for veteran leadership and speciality. I hope that means that Evans and Hayward will play more under Corbin.
 
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