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Rank the Jazz players for this season

Thee jazz fan said:
How valuable do u think Burke is? U really think we can trade him for an asset. No one is giving a first round pick for a backup pg in my opinion, but I guess anything is possible, I guess.


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Not very. Maybe we could get a second for him. Better than nothing
 
Thee jazz fan said:
One reason I don't think the Jazz will trade Burke is they have invested a lot in building through the draft. It seems most of their trades are facilitating trades for other teams taking back one year deals to open up roster space and cap space


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But why have they done all that to open up cap space? I guarantee you if a legit deal came about to significantly upgrade a position, DL would do it.

Why didn't Utah go after wings in free agency? Because Lindsey believes we have very good ones in Hayward, Hood and Burks. Why go after a recovering Matthews or even DMC when you have a likely 40%+ 3PT shooter on a rookie deal?

At the bigs, you have Gobert and Favors. Derrick gives Utah the flexibility to use him as the backup 5 if they can find or develop a very good PF (maybe that will be Lyles, we'll just wait and see). And we have one more year of Booker so a very raw Lyles can develop.

So at the 4/5 and 2/3 Utah already has 3-man rotations with 4th or even 5th role players as needed to fill in.

Only position left to spend all that available cash is PG. But DL isn't going to bring in someone who would be a marginal upgrade. The picks he acquired are assets. Burke, unfortunately, is a minor asset now unless he turns it around. If DL can convert a lot of those assets into a near all-star caliber player, he will in a heartbeat.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
If we trade him it better be for a contract coming off the books this year


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Thee jazz fan said:
Otherwise I'd rather have the added cap space rather then a third rate asset


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I might be wrong but I think we have buttloads of cap space already and are actually going to struggle to spend enough to get to the salary floor
 
fishonjazz said:
I might be wrong but I think we have buttloads of cap space already and are actually going to struggle to spend enough to get to the salary floor
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Hoops Hype has us at $59M. Not sure if this includes all the training camp bonuses Utah has agreed to. The floor, I believe, is $63M.

You realize we don't HAVE to spend the money, right? The only penalty for not meeting the floor is that the difference gets distributed to the players on the roster. In fact, that could be a very good positive. DL can say, "we believed in all of you enough to NOT bring in anyone to take away your minutes. In doing so, we also saved money which is being passed back to each of you."

Better to keep $11M in cap space open, IMO. That gives Utah the flexibility to easily trade for just about anyone with their cap space (plus Booker's expiring if needed, and/or any of the minor ones that expire or have team options for 2016-17).
 
Stifle Tower said:
Hoops Hype has us at $59M. Not sure if this includes all the training camp bonuses Utah has agreed to. The floor, I believe, is $63M.

You realize we don't HAVE to spend the money, right? The only penalty for not meeting the floor is that the difference gets distributed to the players on the roster. In fact, that could be a very good positive. DL can say, "we believed in all of you enough to NOT bring in anyone to take away your minutes. In doing so, we also saved money which is being passed back to each of you."

Better to keep $11M in cap space open, IMO. That gives Utah the flexibility to easily trade for just about anyone with their cap space plus Booker's expiring (and/or any of the minor ones that expire or have team options for 2016-17).
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I'm simply saying that not trading trey burke because we are scared of cap issues doesn't seem likely
 
fishonjazz said:
I'm simply saying that not trading trey burke because we are scared of cap issues doesn't seem likely
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OK. I imagine any trade involving Trey would be for a better veteran making MORE money. And never mind the cap, we're still under the floor as you pointed out. At most, any veteran would have 2-3 years left on their contract after this season (we're not getting a 5-yr star). So really not an issue going forward. That contract would be up right as Utah needs to pay Gobert his $25-$30M.
 
zman1527 said:
Rudy Gobert had better be number one. He is the only guy who has the potential to be transcendent, to take our team to the next level based on his play.
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I don't think he is #1 now because of his offense. And I disagree that he is the only one with potential to take our team to the next level.
 
gregbroncs said:
I don't think he is #1 now because of his offense. And I disagree that he is the only one with potential to take our team to the next level.
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Who do you think is also able to do that? I think we have seen hayward, favors, and burks enough to know that they are very good but not game changers. Exum could be but a big question mark and certainly not this year.
 
zman1527 said:
Who do you think is also able to do that? I think we have seen hayward, favors, and burks enough to know that they are very good but not game changers. Exum could be but a big question mark and certainly not this year.
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Hayward, Favors and Burks have all improved each year. What makes you think they cannot continue to improve? It's crazy to say that you know they cannot be game changers. Just as an example, if the outside shooting percentages for any of those three rose by 5% they would be elite offensively at their position.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hayward, Favors and Burks have all improved each year. What makes you think they cannot continue to improve? It's crazy to say that you know they cannot be game changers. Just as an example, if the outside shooting percentages for any of those three rose by 5% they would be elite offensively at their position.
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This. In fact I find it more likely that Hayward and Favors become elite players than Gobert becoming an elite offensive player. I love Gobert, but offensively he's super limited, like Tyson Chandler limited. I expect him to improve on offense because of his personality but I'm not sure he'll ever be better than a pretty good player on that end of the floor. While he is elite defensively I want guys that can change the game on either or both ends of the floor and Favors, Hayward, Burks and Hood all show the capability of eventually being game changers offensively.
While Hayward and Favors are both already really good defenders as well.
 
gregbroncs said:
This. In fact I find it more likely that Hayward and Favors become elite players than Gobert becoming an elite offensive player. I love Gobert, but offensively he's super limited, like Tyson Chandler limited. I expect him to improve on offense because of his personality but I'm not sure he'll ever be better than a pretty good player on that end of the floor. While he is elite defensively I want guys that can change the game on either or both ends of the floor and Favors, Hayward, Burks and Hood all show the capability of eventually being game changers offensively.
While Hayward and Favors are both already really good defenders as well.
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Yes, and imagine if Burks hit over 40% from 3 on high volume. It might be unlikely, but it's not impossible. He'd become almost MJ like on offense. I'm sure I'll be flamed by some for saying it, but I think he's already equivalent to MJ at the rim. Consistent outside shooting would instantly make him one of the best offensive talents in the game. (BTW, I am not suggesting he has MJ like leadership or defensive skills, because I haven't seen real promise of either of those yet.)
 
zman1527 said:
Who do you think is also able to do that? I think we have seen hayward, favors, and burks enough to know that they are very good but not game changers. Exum could be but a big question mark and certainly not this year.
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No ONE player has the ability to take a team to the next level. How many chips did LBJ win in Cleveland? How many did MJ win in Chicago before the arrival of Pippin and others? How about Kobe without Shaq or Gasol?

The answer is ZERO!

So to categorize Hayward, Favors or anyone else as not capable of carrying the Jazz to the next level is disingenuous. It simply can't be done by any one player.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Hayward, Favors and Burks have all improved each year. What makes you think they cannot continue to improve? It's crazy to say that you know they cannot be game changers. Just as an example, if the outside shooting percentages for any of those three rose by 5% they would be elite offensively at their position.
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I think that those three are about as good as they are going to get. Hay and Favs ranked in the 30s by ESPN, I can see them making it into the 20s but not higher. Burks not sure but not likely to get that high even. Gobert can make it into the top 10 just on defense and dunks.
 
Stifle Tower said:
No ONE player has the ability to take a team to the next level. How many chips did LBJ win in Cleveland? How many did MJ win in Chicago before the arrival of Pippin and others? How about Kobe without Shaq or Gasol?

The answer is ZERO!

So to categorize Hayward, Favors or anyone else as not capable of carrying the Jazz to the next level is disingenuous. It simply can't be done by any one player.
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You are right, it cannot be done by one player. Hayward and Favs are not even as elite as Pippen though, and how many would he have won without Jordan? None.
 
zman1527 said:
You are right, it cannot be done by one player. Hayward and Favs are not even as elite as Pippen though, and how many would he have won without Jordan? None.
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Yes, that's my point. Pippin wouldn't have won without another star beside him and Jordan wouldn't have won on his own. And you are correct, Pippin was a special player.

Hayward is already all-star caliber and Favors might get there. Gobert will be a DPOY candidate. Hood and/or Burks could turn out to be all-star quality. They won't all make it because this is Utah and the all-star game is all about popularity. But Utah - IF Lindsey can wrangle a PG (or Exum develops upon his return) - could have all-star quality players at all 5 positions. That's a model that could compete against the "Big-3" teams.
 
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