What's new
By:

I know there are a lot of LDS people here

fishonjazz said:
But it was written and put together by man correct?
Click to expand...

And this is why revelation is SO important.

BUT, if there is no revelation, and all we have is multiple translations of the Bible, each one teaching something a little different, than what do we really have?
 
colton said:
Yes, the potential social ostracization is what's most concerning to me. Ward leaders will have to take very special care to deal with those situations and make sure there isn't any sort of stigma for non-baptized primary-aged kids.

But frankly, how common is this situation, anyway? How many gay couples have their young kids attending LDS church meetings? And why would the couple even do that when they clearly don't believe in LDS teachings? I can understand in teen-aged years it might be more common as the kids themselves become more independent, but I have a hard time picturing an 8 year old kid being raised by a gay couple but who also regularly comes to LDS church meetings.
Click to expand...

Well, Me and four of my brothers for one. My mother came out when I was 11, I'm the oldest. We were all baptized (3 of us after my mom came out) and served missions. I don't know how common it is but with this policy in place I don't think we would have stuck around.
 
green said:
You are missing my point. In the scriptures, there is no differentiation between homosexual sex, fornication and adultery. They are all listed together. Who made the decision that where you stick your genitals is the problem? Where in the scriptures does it say that they only belong in certain places?

Religion, ours in particular, has had the rule that fornication and adultery is ok if you get married afterwards. If you get married, you can have all the blessings and so can your children.

Well, what happens when two homosexuals get married? They are still denied.

So, to recap: God views adultery, fornication, and whatever the word means that we've interpreted to mean prostitution or homosexuality the same.

We have said if you get married, you can overcome adultery and fornication and prostitution and your kids can be blessed, named, baptized, get the priesthood, etc.

BUT, if you are homosexual and get married...well, you can't have any of that.

NOW, if this isn't a marriage issue, but a "where does your genitals belong" issue, then lets talk about that. Where in the scriptures does it say where your genitals belong?
Click to expand...

My point is that it is the same principle.
The difference in your examples is that in one scenario the sinful act is stopped, and in the other it is not.
 
Thanks for this thread. I have a few comments. I'm LDS, in 2008 I unfortunately was very vocal in supporting the church. After meeting some gay people and having friends come out, I realize I was wrong. I've sat down and talked with some of my LDS friends that are gay and now I hope and pray my church will repent and welcome them back. Unfortunately I think it is to late. My friends are incredible, but they'd be even more amazing in my eyes if they accepted an apology from the church.

Here are a couple of thoughts.

-A lot of my LDS friends are struggling with this. Lots of activity of Facebook in the Mormon community. 50% upset, 50% trying to help those that are upset.
-The way it was leaked in the media makes it look even worse. The church should have handled this better.
-There are tons of Mormon blogs offering various explanations. I'll post some links later. One point they make is that sometimes the church doesn't allow people to get baptized in order to protect them. For example, missionaries are not allowed to teach Muslim exchange students at BYU. There is a concern that if they converted and returned home they would be shunned or even killed by their family. Apparently there are situations where Muslims are not allowed to be baptized (I don't know all the details here, this was new to me.) The thought is that it would be psychologically damaging for a child of a homosexual couple to attend church and learn that their parents are sinners/not accepted by the church. For this reason they want to delay membership for these children. Let them be older and more capable of figuring these things out.

-There are lots of faithful LDS people struggling. They feel the church has brought a great deal of goodness in their lives. They feel they have grown closer to God because of what the church teaches. It is a part of who they are and they can't deny it. But they hate what the church announced yesterday. Lots of pain.

- https://bycommonconsent.com/2015/11/06/all-the-more-jarring/
 
I grew up in the church, served a 2-year mission, married in the temple... and then got divorced and found myself on the outside looking in. Ultimately, I stopped going because so little about the church and its message resonated with me anymore, but my parents and extended family are all very active, and I've always respected the core teachings. I've continued to defend the church, in fact, despite not being active.

But this... Man, this makes me so sad. Christ's teaching are often referred to as a gospel of peace. This cruel doctrine is nothing less than hateful. It's ironic and unjustified-- scripturally or otherwise. What a horrible mistake.
 
GVC said:
FWIW, up until at least late 2001, most missionaries in Singapore were effectively there (in their capacity as missionaries) illegally.
Click to expand...

I don't buy it. My dad was a mission president in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Myamar from 2000-2003 and the church was very careful to follow the local laws about proselyting during that time. What's your source for this claim?
 
colton said:
I don't buy it. My dad was a mission president in Cambodia, Vietnam, and Myamar from 2000-2003 and the church was very careful to follow the local laws about proselyting during that time. What's your source for this claim?
Click to expand...

What about the Church changing the law of chastity?
 
JFFR said:
Thanks for this thread. I have a few comments. I'm LDS, in 2008 I unfortunately was very vocal in supporting the church. After meeting some gay people and having friends come out, I realize I was wrong. I've sat down and talked with some of my LDS friends that are gay and now I hope and pray my church will repent and welcome them back. Unfortunately I think it is to late. My friends are incredible, but they'd be even more amazing in my eyes if they accepted an apology from the church.

Here are a couple of thoughts.

-A lot of my LDS friends are struggling with this. Lots of activity of Facebook in the Mormon community. 50% upset, 50% trying to help those that are upset.
-The way it was leaked in the media makes it look even worse. The church should have handled this better.
-There are tons of Mormon blogs offering various explanations. I'll post some links later. One point they make is that sometimes the church doesn't allow people to get baptized in order to protect them. For example, missionaries are not allowed to teach Muslim exchange students at BYU. There is a concern that if they converted and returned home they would be shunned or even killed by their family. Apparently there are situations where Muslims are not allowed to be baptized (I don't know all the details here, this was new to me.) The thought is that it would be psychologically damaging for a child of a homosexual couple to attend church and learn that their parents are sinners/not accepted by the church. For this reason they want to delay membership for these children. Let them be older and more capable of figuring these things out.

-There are lots of faithful LDS people struggling. They feel the church has brought a great deal of goodness in their lives. They feel they have grown closer to God because of what the church teaches. It is a part of who they are and they can't deny it. But they hate what the church announced yesterday. Lots of pain.

- https://bycommonconsent.com/2015/11/06/all-the-more-jarring/
Click to expand...

I am also seeing another trend on FB. Probably 10-15% of the LDS family and friends I have on FB.

They are incensed and going off about "How dare people question the prophet!" and what not. That to me is an extremely bad position and leads to unnecessary hard feelings and maybe even ostracizing of other members that disagree.

It is absolutely right and good to question and wonder why and want an explanation for better understanding (even when it doesn't lead to agreement).
 
Safetydan said:
Well, Me and four of my brothers for one. My mother came out when I was 11, I'm the oldest. We were all baptized (3 of us after my mom came out) and served missions. I don't know how common it is but with this policy in place I don't think we would have stuck around.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your perspective. So your mom was in a same-sex relationship, and you lived with the two of them? Or was it shared custody, or something like that?
 
JFFR said:
One point they make is that sometimes the church doesn't allow people to get baptized in order to protect them. For example, missionaries are not allowed to teach Muslim exchange students at BYU. There is a concern that if they converted and returned home they would be shunned or even killed by their family. Apparently there are situations where Muslims are not allowed to be baptized (I don't know all the details here, this was new to me.)
Click to expand...

That's true, or at least I know it has been at times in the past. When I was a missionary, 1989-1991, at least during part of that time we were prevented from baptizing Muslims for exactly that same reason. (I don't know what the current policy is.)
 
green said:
What about the Church changing the law of chastity?
Click to expand...

Look, I'm not going to get into a discussion of temple ceremony wording with you for obvious reasons (I hold the temple ceremony sacred). But the church has not changed the law of chastity during my lifetime.
 
green said:
...This is what bothers me. I stayed up last night pouring through the bible looking at the scriptures on homosexuality. There are some and the Bible is very clear on the matter: Homosexuality is wrong.

BUT, in EVERY case, listed right next to homosexuality is adultery and fornication. So, why are we singling out gay people?...
Click to expand...

ok, so I'm going to sound a bit like Beantown here, but the answer should be pretty obvious - - gay couples cannot, on their own, procreate.

I think that explains something.
 
I'd thought the Church has taken some solid steps on this issue...

https://www.religionnews.com/2015/0...k-gay-marriage-social-media-lds-apostle-says/

Any Mormon can have a belief "on either side of this issue," he said. "That's not uncommon." There hasn’t been any litmus test or standard imposed that you couldn’t support that if you want to support it, if that’s your belief and you think it’s right,”
Click to expand...

But from the new policy...

"The child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the Church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage"
Click to expand...

Definition of disavow: Deny any responsibility or support for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top