Another shooting... California Disability Centre

[babe]

Just out of interest, has any of you (or somebody you know) who currently have guns been able to stop a robber or a perpetrator from harming you or your family using YOUR own guns?

yes.

and a dog has saved my life, too.

 

[The Midnight]

hunting is fine, i have no issue with that at all, and those here wanting to hunt recreationally can obtain a permit to do so. As far as criminals still getting guns, sure of course that's gonna happen, because they have the motives and knowledge of how to access them. But that is different to a mentally disturbed person who can so easily obtain a gun there to go on a mass shooting.

I can certainly identify with the instinct of wanting to be able to defend one's family, but i just don't see that a culture of everyone having reasonably easy access to weapons doesn't lead to a lot more deaths that wouldn't be the case otherwise. As far as mass shootings go, has there been any documented cases of an armed member of the public intervening and stopping a rampaging shooter from killing even more people than they otherwise would have ? (serious q btw, i actually don't know ?? )

Good post.

 

[Harambe]

yes.

and a dog has saved my life, too.

You must be quite the d*ck. I've never had anyone threaten my life, nor come close to make me think if I had a gun I'd be better off.

 

[fishonjazz]

Just out of interest, has any of you (or somebody you know) who currently have guns been able to stop a robber or a perpetrator from harming you or your family using YOUR own guns?

I have not stopped anyone with my guns yet

 

[Harambe]

Your addiction argument is one of the weakest I've heard. So you think someone with the mindset of walking into a crowded room and opening fire gives two ****s what the penalties are?

Absolutely not. That's why you stop them from having that opportunity in the first place. When they're purchasing is when you have a chance for logic to intervene.

Which makes the argument sound.

 

[one eye]

Absolutely not. That's why you stop them from having that opportunity in the first place. When they're purchasing is when you have a chance for logic to intervene.

Which makes the argument sound.

America is a very unique case. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation in the United States. 300 million, can you fathom that number? 300 million guns with many people of which are not going to be willing to give them up. So tell me what weapons do you want off the street, explain the regulations that will prevent mass shootings in a nation that now has almost as many guns circulating as citizens? Americas gun case is nothing like Australia's. Obama has been the best thing that ever happened to gun and ammunition manaufacters. They can't keep many things on the shelf. What that tells me is that taking guns from a Americans is going to be much more difficult, and much harder to enforce. Americans have been told we are the free, and when they see a freedom threatened as you can see they entrench themselves more in not giving up that freedom. All this gun control talk has done is put more weapons on the street. In November of this year the FBI conducted over 2.2 million background checks, over 185,000 alone on Black Friday, and we are headed for a record gun sale year. I'm sorry but I don't believe Americans will willingly part with their second amendment, and insignificant regulations such as assault weapon bans or magazine capacity limits will only put more of the wrong equipment in the wrong hands.

 

[one eye]

It was pretty much well received apart from a small minority, but as it followed an awful mass shooting carried out with an automatic assault weapon by a very mentally deficient person it wasn't a real contentious issue. The fact that the government bought back any such weapons softened the blow for those involved. The overwhelming majority of people were happy to accept that the average person has no need for an automatic or semi automatic assault type weapon.

Lo and behold since that time which is coming up on 20 years no such mass shootings .... and people with legitimate reason to own a firearm - sporting/hunting or those on farms etc still can gain permits to own appropriate weapons.

I just can't see any way to deal with it there tho, there's just waaaaay too many weapons in circulation.

All I will say is America is not Australia, and our population, diversity, and culture is not going to result in a similar result in my opinion if what has been instituted their is instituted here. I don't want guns falling into the wrong hands either, but we have 325 million people and 300 million firearms spread across a nation much larger with a variety of different settings. I don't believe the premise of the idea that we should gather up the firearms, but I also don't even believe it can be achieved in a way to stop what we are trying to stop here.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

All I will say is America is not Australia, and our population, diversity, and culture is not going to result in a similar result in my opinion if what has been instituted their is instituted here. I don't want guns falling into the wrong hands either, but we have 325 million people and 300 million firearms spread across a nation much larger with a variety of different settings. I don't believe the premise of the idea that we should gather up the firearms, but I also don't even believe it can be achieved in a way to stop what we are trying to stop here.

which is why i've said it's pointless to even try, the horse has bolted so there's no point in trying to shut the gate.

 

[The Midnight]

All I will say is America is not Australia, and our population, diversity, and culture is not going to result in a similar result in my opinion if what has been instituted their is instituted here. I don't want guns falling into the wrong hands either, but we have 325 million people and 300 million firearms spread across a nation much larger with a variety of different settings. I don't believe the premise of the idea that we should gather up the firearms, but I also don't even believe it can be achieved in a way to stop what we are trying to stop here.

So... if it's in the 'too hard basket' then let's forget about it? Ok...

 

[The Midnight]

Gun Maker Smith & Wesson triples profits in three months to October

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-35047899

Some analysts have said the surge in gun sales across the US is due to growing crime rates together with worries over restrictions on gun ownership - particularly in the wake of mass shooting incidents in the country.

....

"The [number one] driver of firearms sales is fear," Brian Ruttenbur, an analyst at BB&T Capital Markets, told Bloomberg.

 

[babe]

You must be quite the d*ck. I've never had anyone threaten my life, nor come close to make me think if I had a gun I'd be better off.

pretty cool demonstration of intelligence, bro. stuff like that goes with having something, or being something, that people will notice.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

It would take much more effort for a muslim couple to kill as many as 14 and wound 17 fully grown adults with knives and bats though...

They would still use guns and bombs. Anybody who thinks that banning guns is going to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is insane. The clips they had were illegal. That didn't stop them from using them. All of the pipe bombs in their possession were illegal. Do you think that deterred them at all? I'm sure they didn't care.

 

[The Midnight]

They would still use guns and bombs. Anybody who thinks that banning guns is going to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is insane. The clips they had were illegal. That didn't stop them from using them. All of the pipe bombs in their possession were illegal. Do you think that deterred them at all? I'm sure they didn't care.

I never said it's gonna stop them, but it can make it harder. Even you'll have to agree it's currently easier to buy guns than to make bombs in the US, am I right?

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I never said it's gonna stop them, but it can make it harder. Even you'll have to agree it's currently easier to buy guns than to make bombs in the US, am I right?

You implied that the terrorists would have to use bats and knives and that the crime would therefore be reduced. I'm saying that no matter what law you put in place, the terrorists would still use guns. Why does it matter whether it is more difficult to build a bomb or buy a gun? They had both.

 

[The Midnight]

You implied that the terrorists would have to use bats and knives and that the crime would therefore be reduced. I'm saying that no matter what law you put in place, the terrorists would still use guns. Why does it matter whether it is more difficult to build a bomb or buy a gun? They had both.

You're right there's nothing we can do. Oh actually there is - equip every single households and persons walking on the street with guns so they can defend themselves. That'll solve the problem.

 

[one eye]

I understand your premise One Love, but again I just don't agree with it. America is America. We are very different from other countries and we have so many things adding to chaos in this country right now, IMO gun control isn't going to work, and little tic tac regulations on assault weapons and magazines will make no difference.

Speaking to the terrorist aspect of things, if they want guns I believe they'll find a way to get them. We have many illegal things in this country and in truth most of them are all readily available if you're willing to take the risk of the consequences to get them. America is so influential and powerful in this world we are a nation with a big target on our back. We aren't Canada, we aren't Australia, we aren't a nation that anyone sees as neutral, you either like us or you hate us and we've got plenty of people who are happy to come and attack us. A shooting like the one in California would not have been avoided with gun laws.

Being politically correct on all issues and not wanting to hurt people's feelings in this nation has gotten out of hand. I mean we live in a world when a cop kills someone it was our corrupt law enforcement but when a civilian kills someone it was the gun. When a kid takes what looks like a bomb clock to school and is questioned for it he is invited to the White House and his family threatens lawsuits against the school. We have people making money off of shouting down "all lives matter." We can't question anyone or hurt their feeling in fear of being shouted down or sued and then when no one dares say anything we end up with psychos aloud to walk free until they finally snap and carry out what they've been planning.

 

[The Midnight]

I understand your premise One Love, but again I just don't agree with it. America is America. We are very different from other countries and we have so many things adding to chaos in this country right now, IMO gun control isn't going to work, and little tic tac regulations on assault weapons and magazines will make no difference.

Speaking to the terrorist aspect of things, if they want guns I believe they'll find a way to get them. We have many illegal things in this country and in truth most of them are all readily available if you're willing to take the risk of the consequences to get them. America is so influential and powerful in this world we are a nation with a big target on our back. We aren't Canada, we aren't Australia, we aren't a nation that anyone sees as neutral, you either like us or you hate us and we've got plenty of people who are happy to come and attack us. A shooting like the one in California would not have been avoided with gun laws.

Being politically correct on all issues and not wanting to hurt people's feelings in this nation has gotten out of hand. I mean we live in a world when a cop kills someone it was our corrupt law enforcement but when a civilian kills someone it was the gun. When a kid takes what looks like a bomb clock to school and is questioned for it he is invited to the White House and his family threatens lawsuits against the school. We have people making money off of shouting down "all lives matter." We can't question anyone or hurt their feeling in fear of being shouted down or sued and then when no one dares say anything we end up with psychos aloud to walk free until they finally snap and carry out what they've been planning.

On the contrary I think there is an opportunity here to set an example to the world and have less of a target on your back. Taking the guns off the street & civilians doesn't mean you have to be weak. Why not empower the police, the FBI and the army more? Why not invest in research and build the most kick *** intelligence system money can buy so you can catch these guys even before they start thinking about launching an attack?


Make your defense, offensive. Be on the front foot. But do it with trained professionals who know what they're doing rather than have civilians trying to defend themselves. No matter how many guns you give ordinary people, they'll never be safe against terrorists.


Fight the war with intelligence, not with brute force. I think there is a smart way to do this.

 

[Harambe]

America is a very unique case. There are around 300 million firearms in circulation in the United States. 300 million, can you fathom that number? 300 million guns with many people of which are not going to be willing to give them up. So tell me what weapons do you want off the street, explain the regulations that will prevent mass shootings in a nation that now has almost as many guns circulating as citizens? Americas gun case is nothing like Australia's. Obama has been the best thing that ever happened to gun and ammunition manaufacters. They can't keep many things on the shelf. What that tells me is that taking guns from a Americans is going to be much more difficult, and much harder to enforce. Americans have been told we are the free, and when they see a freedom threatened as you can see they entrench themselves more in not giving up that freedom. All this gun control talk has done is put more weapons on the street. In November of this year the FBI conducted over 2.2 million background checks, over 185,000 alone on Black Friday, and we are headed for a record gun sale year. I'm sorry but I don't believe Americans will willingly part with their second amendment, and insignificant regulations such as assault weapon bans or magazine capacity limits will only put more of the wrong equipment in the wrong hands.

Pure, Unadulterated, Speculation. Every time we have a mass shooting and nothing's done the hearts of the people change. Every time someone you know shoots themself... every time there's a robbery and a gun is fired.

Even in Australia's case, you can still own a firearm; we'd do the same here. Just show that you need one for X reason and it's yours. Most firearm wielding citizens would be happy to comply with whatever's needed to keep their guns. The term "well regulated militia" comes to mind. Make it free with a background check/interview, and the unwashed unreasonable masses will comply.

You keep bringing up the 2nd amendment like it's infallible blanket that says you can go buy a pack of smokes and 13 firearms of your choosing. It's not. I'll post it right here again:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment

Not "You get a gun just cuz". Rather "A militia is necessary; for that reason you can have a gun".

Over the years, this has been interpreted different ways depending on the courts. As we've seen in recent years with gay marriage bans being deemed illegal, African Americans getting equal rights, and the Women's Suffrage movements, as the hearts of the people change, so do the minds of the courts.

Now, again, stop the butt hurt and quit fighting something that's a last option. Find a way out of using a gun ban that's even arguably as effective as what Australia's done. I'd much rather jump on that train, but I'm not convinced it exists.

 

[Harambe]

pretty cool demonstration of intelligence, bro. stuff like that goes with having something, or being something, that people will notice.

Through Humor, you create a connection with people. As Jon Stewart proved, and continues to prove, through humor can many truths be seen.

You simply didn't see the humor, nor any truth that may exist. I'll not apologize for that.

 

[Stoked]

Pure, Unadulterated, Speculation. Every time we have a mass shooting and nothing's done the hearts of the people change. Every time someone you know shoots themself... every time there's a robbery and a gun is fired.

Even in Australia's case, you can still own a firearm; we'd do the same here. Just show that you need one for X reason and it's yours. Most firearm wielding citizens would be happy to comply with whatever's needed to keep their guns. The term "well regulated militia" comes to mind. Make it free with a background check/interview, and the unwashed unreasonable masses will comply.

You keep bringing up the 2nd amendment like it's infallible blanket that says you can go buy a pack of smokes and 13 firearms of your choosing. It's not. I'll post it right here again:


https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment

Not "You get a gun just cuz". Rather "A militia is necessary; for that reason you can have a gun".

Over the years, this has been interpreted different ways depending on the courts. As we've seen in recent years with gay marriage bans being deemed illegal, African Americans getting equal rights, and the Women's Suffrage movements, as the hearts of the people change, so do the minds of the courts.

Now, again, stop the butt hurt and quit fighting something that's a last option. Find a way out of using a gun ban that's even arguably as effective as what Australia's done. I'd much rather jump on that train, but I'm not convinced it exists.

But it is an absolutely reasonable speculation. Will some people give up their guns? Of course, but not everyone. I'd bet that the majority keep their guns actually.

Is that speculation? Sure. But it is also speculation that public opinion will turn against gun rights towards gun ownership. Will hearts change? Sure, but that doesn't mean they will change the way you want them to.

I do not see the majority of gun owners giving their guns up without a fight.