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Donald Trump

colton said:
If Trump v. Clinton is on the ballot I will either vote for a third party or write someone in. No way I'm voting for either of those two.

(Same goes for Trump v. Sanders.)
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So, reading between the lines here, you would just never vote for a Democrat?

FWIW: I know I'm pretty liberal, but I don't actually feel that way about GOPers. There's usually one guy every cycle that I would consider voting for instead of the Democratic nominee. Of course, that guy never gets nominated. This year's edition is John Kasich, who seems generally reasonable and informed and doesn't engage in demagoguery. 2012's edition was Jon Huntsman, who was plainly the adult in that particular room.
 
Stoked said:
I'd say they get the leaders they have earned. Not deserve but that's a word game.

Sigh
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Actually a good distinction, and not just semantics.

I think a good chunk of the US population has definitely earned Trump as their president. I have complete faith, however, that the other 55% or so have not and will prevent that from happening. Hilary is no prize pony herself, but the next 9 years look infinitely better with the prospect of her at the helm.
 
JimLes said:
Actually a good distinction, and not just semantics.

I think a good chunk of the US population has definitely earned Trump as their president. I have complete faith, however, that the other 55% or so have not and will prevent that from happening. Hilary is no prize pony herself, but the next 9 years look infinitely better with the prospect of her at the helm.
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I disagree. I want no part of Trump or Clinton. To be honest anyone but them. Even if I have to hold my nose to vote whoever else it is in over them.
 
Sirkickyass said:
So, reading between the lines here, you would just never vote for a Democrat?
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No. I've voted for Democrats before at times, although admittedly not ever for president. But if Trump or Cruz were the Republican nominee and the democrats had someone other than Hillary or Bernie I'd certainly consider voting for them.
 
I don't want to vote for Hillary at all, but if Trump is the nominee I'll be forced to do so (same with Christie, though he's a no hoper right now). Even if it's someone like Cruz I'll just vote for a 3rd party loon (as long as that loon isn't Trump).
 
Nate505 said:
I don't want to vote for Hillary at all, but if Trump is the nominee I'll be forced to do so (same with Christie, though he's a no hoper right now). Even if it's someone like Cruz I'll just vote for a 3rd party loon (as long as that loon isn't Trump).
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Pretty much this.
 
I think the Donald is about as classic a demagogue as we could ever hope to avoid in this nation. Paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson, "a healthy functioning democracy depends on an educated electorate". I don't believe he was referring to level of education. I believe he was speaking of the need for the citizens of a democracy to recognize the emergence of demagogues. To recognize, in times of tremendous social and cultural change, that the body politic is ripe for exploitation when fear and loathing grip the land. And there may be individuals better able to know the pulse of growing societal anxiety, and use it to their advantage. By speaking to the fear, anger, and anxiety over change that is present in society during times of social and cultural change. That's exactly what a demagogue does, takes advantage of widespread fear and anxiety to give fearful people what they want to hear, and to offer the strong man image as someone they can turn to to channel that fear and anger into a movement that gets the power hungry demagogue what he wants, elected to power.

I saved this article awhile back, because I found it to be an excellent analysis of the sources of Trump's appeal in 21st century America. I think this article nails it.

You know, when a black man was roughed up at one of Trump's rally's, Trump responded "maybe he deserved to be roughed up". He might as well have added "I got my Brownshirts to help me", because it sure was remindful of the Brownshirts...

https://www.salon.com/2015/09/24/8_...lls_for_demagogues_like_donald_trump_partner/
 
And America has its antecedents to Trump:

https://notesironbound.blogspot.com/2015/08/america-has-its-own-antecedents-for.html

"..... I think it all starts with Andrew Jackson. Jackson's white nationalism appealed directly to the mass of rural white men. He brazenly ignored the Supreme Court and pushed to deport the Cherokee to Oklahoma in a shameful ethnic cleansing. Trump's deportation advocacy ought to be seen in light of the Trail of Tears. Trump's immigration proposals come out of a belief that this is a white man's country, a basic principle of Jacksonianism. Jackson also set his sights on elite, attacking the Second Bank of the United States, and acting contemptuous of those more established in Washington. Later Southern populists like Ben Tillman, who attacked elites while simultaneously enforcing white supremacy carried on the Jacksonian spirit until the end of the 19th century."


"In regards to immigration, it is also obvious that Trump is tapping into a long tradition of nativism in America stretching back to the Know-Nothing party of the 1850s and including the 1920s iteration of the KKK. That nativism was accompanied by harsh violence of the kind visited upon a Latino homeless man by two Trump supporters recently. Trump's tardiness in condemning or distancing himself from it demonstrates that he understands the power of this violent nationalism, which is why he is eschewing dog whistles for the raw red meat his followers have been craving."
 
Red said:
I think the Donald is about as classic a demagogue as we could ever hope to avoid in this nation. Paraphrasing Thomas Jefferson, "a healthy functioning democracy depends on an educated electorate". I don't believe he was referring to level of education. I believe he was speaking of the need for the citizens of a democracy to recognize the emergence of demagogues. To recognize, in times of tremendous social and cultural change, that the body politic is ripe for exploitation when fear and loathing grip the land. And there may be individuals better able to know the pulse of growing societal anxiety, and use it to their advantage. By speaking to the fear, anger, and anxiety over change that is present in society during times of social and cultural change. That's exactly what a demagogue does, takes advantage of widespread fear and anxiety to give fearful people what they want to hear, and to offer the strong man image as someone they can turn to to channel that fear and anger into a movement that gets the power hungry demagogue what he wants, elected to power.

I saved this article awhile back, because I found it to be an excellent analysis of the sources of Trump's appeal in 21st century America. I think this article nails it.

You know, when a black man was roughed up at one of Trump's rally's, Trump responded "maybe he deserved to be roughed up". He might as well have added "I got my Brownshirts to help me", because it sure was remindful of the Brownshirts...

https://www.salon.com/2015/09/24/8_...lls_for_demagogues_like_donald_trump_partner/
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What does demagogue mean?
 
colton said:
SMH as well, and I'm from here!

But it seems like his support here on Jazzfanz is pretty minimal. Knew there was a reason people often say the Jazz have some of the smartest fans in the NBA. :-)
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Does Trump have a single supporter on this board? If he did you would think they would appear in this thread and say something positive. I'm politically conservative, but there are no circumstances under which I would vote for him. Even if he were running against Clinton, who I see as the worst possible choice, he would not get my vote.
 
I won't vote for him.

But I am getting a kick out of watching him burn down the GOP.
 
Wow this is a big let down for Trump. He is going to lose in Iowa. Cruz is at 28%, Trump 25% and Rubio 22% It is a 3 man race.

If I am the RNC and Rubio camp I approach the Carson, Fiorina, Christie, Busch and Kasich camps and beg them to drop out and endorse me. I see Santoruma dn Huckabee supporters drifting towards Cruz.

But anything short of a decent sized win has to be a loss for Trump. To come in 2nd with 3rd on your heels. Ouch.

Tonight is a win for Sanders on the D side IMO. 51% to 49% Clinton. He has basically tied her and N.H. has never been very friendly to Clinton. If he can win there he might take this thing.

Sanders v Cruz?

Sanders v Rubio?

Hell of a lot better sounding that Clinton v. Trump lol.

It is officially a 2 horse race for the Dems. Clinton & Sanders.

Looks like a 3 horse race for the Rs. Cruz, Trump, Rubio.
 
It makes my day that Trump didn't win.

That's a win for America!
 
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