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Name a better wing rotation than Hayward Hood Burks

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 848
  • Start date Start date
You're going to be burned 9 times out of 10 when you're making roster decisions with the expectation that you'll be starting only 2 of your top players for huge stretches of the season.
 
dalamon said:
A disingenuous argument when having the intellectual honesty to remember that the Jazz have had the greatest injury problems in the NBA this season, and have been more injured than the past 10 seasons worth of Jazz teams.
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3983 is a lot of minutes. Enough that I don't have to lean on disingenuity. The Jazz still need more talent. Good players on good contracts can be moved if the cap situation or rotation realities make it necessary.
 
GVC said:
And then not finish. He's shooting .387 from 3, and apparently is good at getting to the rim and drawing fouls, yet still has a **** .518 TS%. Doesn't add up.
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I get it that you dont thinks burks is good enough to be a 3rd wing.
So who is the player that was available to get that shoots a better .518 TS% with as much upside as burks on a reasonable contract?
 
GVC said:
3983 is a lot of minutes. Enough that I don't have to lean on disingenuity. The Jazz still need more talent. Good players on good contracts can be moved if the cap situation or rotation realities make it necessary.
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Jazz need more talent if they want to make a title run this season.


They don't need to make a title run this season.
 
fishonjazz said:
I get it that you dont thinks burks is good enough to be a 3rd wing.
So who is the player that was available to get that shoots a better .518 TS% with as much upside as burks on a reasonable contract?
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*crickets*
 
GVC said:
My point hasn't been that the Jazz needed to move Burks; just that they could have added talent without sacrificing minutes -- which is effectively the anti-cake-baker argument.

For the third time, Booker, Lyles, Ingles, Withey, Johnson, Millsap, Pleiss and O'Brien have played a combined 3983 minutes this season. Plenty of minutes for more talent.
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According to these following posts, your point was also that burks sucks/isn't a good 3rd wing

GVC said:
Burks is a mirage.
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GVC said:
Even better, imagine Hayward, Hood, and a good third wing with Curry.
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Anti cake-bakers unanimously had Rodney Hood coming off the bench this year.



Again, ****ing laughable, when realizing that not a SINGLE PLAYER MENTIONED is having a better season than Rodney Hood. Not Middleton. Not Harris. Not Carroll. Not Green. Not Wes.


No one.
 
fishonjazz said:
He cant run the point? Too bad nba coaches dont understand that.
The rest of your post has some good points and pleny of merit. We just simply disagree.
btw, run the numbers but i think burks is a better spot up shooter than all those big name free agent wings from last summer during this season iirc. As for defense? burks is 24 and may be able to get better. Plus i think that with favors and gobert holding it down our defense will be very good regardless of who else is our there. We do need offense though. especially off the bench. (Something burks can provide)

I hear it said that burks is inefficient scoring but i see his points per game vs his shots per game and they seem to be better than all those big name free agent wings from last summer too. (shoots better pecentages from everywhere and gets to the line more)
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1. Points per shot is a terrible stat. You use a possession when you draw a foul, which is completely ignored in FGA.

2. Carroll and Matthews have shot considerably worse than in recent years. Green's TS% is better than Alec's. All three provide much better D, and historically have been effective as volume 3-point spot-up shooters.

3. Yes, the Jazz still need offense off the bench. Both Treys have shown improvements this season, so there's that. With Hood's emergence, the Jazz might be better off finding a 3D player -- admittedly, a very difficult task -- and staggering Gordo and Hood as much as possible, while playing both heavy minutes, instead of relying on Alec as the third wing. If the Jazz can't find such a player, oh well.
 
MDAV28 said:
https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...players-will-we-go-for/page2&highlight=Tucker

I mean I did in 2013... But I don't really understand. I don't even know what this "cake-baking" means. Somebody suggested we need a perimeter defender and I suggested PJ Tucker..
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Also, cake-baking meant sitting tight with our roster this year and focusing on the development of or current players for one more year, as opposed to going after big deals and players during the offseason-- as we still didn't feel comfortable understanding the ceilings of some of our players, and how good they could really be. Personally, I mentioned 2016-2017 as the year we go out, and the desire to hold off on trades or acquisitions until this year's ASB at the absolute earliest.


In doing this, we've figured out the potential of Lyles, the breaking-out of Hood, the consistency of Hayward, the emergence of Favors, and the decent play of Withey. Burke no longer has negative trade value, and Neto is slowly proving NBA level talent.

In doing this, the hypothesis is that we take an extra year to develop in order to give us a higher percentage of winning that elusive championship someday down the line.
 
GVC said:
1. Points per shot is a terrible stat. You use a possession when you draw a foul, which is completely ignored in FGA.

2. Carroll and Matthews have shot considerably worse than in recent years. Green's TS% is better than Alec's. All three provide much better D, and historically have been effective as volume 3-point spot-up shooters.

3. Yes, the Jazz still need offense off the bench. Both Treys have shown improvements this season, so there's that. With Hood's emergence, the Jazz might be better off finding a 3D player -- admittedly, a very difficult task -- and staggering Gordo and Hood as much as possible, while playing both heavy minutes, instead of relying on Alec as the third wing. If the Jazz can't find such a player, oh well.
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1) Everyone saw Carroll's drop in shooting coming. He went from an elite assisting team, and a team were some absurd number of his buckets were assisted, to the ****ing Toronto Raptors.
2) same goes for Wes-- a dude coming off a team with Lillard, Batum, and Aldridge-- as well as a ruptured Achilles.
3) Green's TS% don't mean **** if he's averaging 7ppg. Like saying Alec is an elite 3-point shooter based on percentage, despite the low # of attempts historically speaking.
 
fishonjazz said:
I get it that you dont thinks burks is good enough to be a 3rd wing.
So who is the player that was available to get that shoots a better .518 TS% with as much upside as burks on a reasonable contract?
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1. I didn't say he isn't good enough to be a third wing. I said he isn't a good third wing. I also provided reasons why he isn't a particularly good fit on the current team.

2. I don't know who was or is available. None of my arguments rely on the availability of other players.
 
dalamon said:
Also, cake-baking meant sitting tight with our roster this year and focusing on the development of or current players for one more year, as opposed to going after big deals and players during the offseason-- as we still didn't feel comfortable understanding the ceilings of some of our players, and how good they could really be. Personally, I mentioned 2016-2017 as the year we go out, and the desire to hold off on trades or acquisitions until this year's ASB at the absolute earliest.


In doing this, we've figured out the potential of Lyles, the breaking-out of Hood, the consistency of Hayward, the emergence of Favors, and the decent play of Withey. Burke no longer has negative trade value, and Neto is slowly proving NBA level talent.

In doing this, the hypothesis is that we take an extra year to develop in order to give us a higher percentage of winning that elusive championship someday down the line.
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Yep
 
dalamon said:
Anti cake-bakers unanimously had Rodney Hood coming off the bench this year.
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No. There was a ton of debate about whether Alec or Hood should start. IIRC, I thought Hood was a better fit next to Gordo, with Alec and Trey providing punch off the bench.

That has nothing to do with wanting to add talent though.
 
I just don't see Burks being good enough to help us if we want to contend. He still plays with an overall low IQ. Sure he's talented, but he doesn't play smart and he doesn't play good defense. I would look to trade him, personally.
 
GVC said:
No. There was a ton of debate about whether Alec or Hood should start. IIRC, I thought Hood was a better fit next to Gordo, with Alec and Trey providing punch off the bench.

That has nothing to do with wanting to add talent though.
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No. Wrong.


Every single target mentioned with the associated hypothetical roster posted had Hood coming off the bench.
 
I don't remember anything about Hood coming off the bench as being unanimous. Seems like people were pretty split on it. I think people also expected/hoped Burks would be a bit better as well.
 
Howard said:
I just don't see Burks being good enough to help us if we want to contend. He still plays with an overall low IQ. Sure he's talented, but he doesn't play smart and he doesn't play good defense. I would look to trade him, personally.
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I'm starting to slowly feel similarly-- but I'll see how he looks once he jumps back into the team.


Fortunately, Burks is very very tradeable.
 
Howard said:
I don't remember anything about Hood coming off the bench as being unanimous. Seems like people were pretty split on it. I think people also expected/hoped Burks would be a bit better as well.
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Ppl had Burks spending most of his minutes at PG, and Hood backing up the 2/3 with Hayward and the target starting, whether it was Green, Wes, Carroll, etc. Nearly 90-100% unanimous.
 
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