Is Gordon Hayward overrated?

[NUMBERICA]

I disagree with the generality that because other teams will pay a player something means that we should as well.

Should we have kept kanter and matched the offer that portland gave him like okc did? Just because portland and okc (and probably many other teams) would pay kanter what he is currently making does not mean we should.

Same thing applies with hayward imo. Just because some other teams would give him 5 years 150 million does not necessarily mean we should too.

Then he needs to be traded. Plain and simple.

 

[Crawlnstall]

Hayward is fine, and was our true leader this year. He was there in most games and in most second halves, especially the second half of the year. He kept them afloat with all the injuries. I heard a couple of analysts on NBA radio talking about him being maybe the 6th best SF in the game.

The guy I think the Jazz have overrated is Favors. When he is healthy and comes to play he can dominate. It seems like he does that only a couple of times a month when he is healthy though. I also wonder if Lyles is not a better fit with Rudy.

I agree with you on Favors. He has all the natural talent in the world but seems to not insert himself enough into games.
I don't know if its because the team doesnt run enough plays for him to be involved, or if its just how he is...But I was expecting him to be way more dominant.

As for Hayward...I really like the guy. He played very well this season and is our best overall player. He is not a #1 option, but he is a good #2. Maybe he plays better with a true #1 option, maybe he doesnt. All I Know is I'm glad we have him but I dont wanna pay him true max money. his current pay range is fine

 

[NUMBERICA]

Hayward is a terrific player and great piece. But for him, why would he stay with a treadmill team that can't make the playoffs? Why would the Jazz devote such resources to a player that is short of a legit #1 playing for a treadmill team? At this point, keeping him heading into the season would be the gamble.

 

[fishonjazz]

That escalated quickly. Sorry for bothering you, Boris. I personally don't blame Hayward. He's a solid player, flawed like they all are, but our problems were bigger than him this season.

Don't mind him. You are well liked and valued poster.

 

[fishonjazz]

He's a ****in bitch

trade



He is not max player dummie. He got max BEFORE HUGE TV DEAL EVERYONE KNEW WAS COMING. Do not tell me you think he will get another max deal after revenue increase or I swear I will hack your account for devious purposes.

I think he will get another max deal. Just hope it isn't us that gives it to him

 

[jope]

Hayward is a terrific player and great piece. But for him, why would he stay with a treadmill team that can't make the playoffs? Why would the Jazz devote such resources to a player that is short of a legit #1 playing for a treadmill team? At this point, keeping him heading into the season would be the gamble.

nailed it.

 

[fishonjazz]

Missed games are too small of a sample to be meaningful statistically. Look at the teams offensive rating when he was on/off the court. Quinn tried hard to minimize the damage when he was off the court in many ways but the offense often stalled regardless.

That doesn't really work either though because when he is off the court the other starters are often off the court too.
You said he is the jazz offense. If that is truly the case then the jazz offense should, in theory, suck when he misses games.

 

[Stoked]

I disagree with the generality that because other teams will pay a player something means that we should as well.

Should we have kept kanter and matched the offer that portland gave him like okc did? Just because portland and okc (and probably many other teams) would pay kanter what he is currently making does not mean we should.

Same thing applies with hayward imo. Just because some other teams would give him 5 years 150 million does not necessarily mean we should too.

I agree with that point. But it doesn't change the point I am making. That is what that player is worth. You also have to look at fit, skills, attitude... but the market for Kanter was 70mill.

If you don't want to pay Hayward that money then don't. But that is his market worth.

 

[Ron Mexico]

That doesn't really work either though because when he is off the court the other starters are often off the court too.
You said he is the jazz offense. If that is truly the case then the jazz offense should, in theory, suck when he misses games.

It can be adjusted to see what he looks like on the court with starters or others. Even the starters struggled with him on the bench. Although I will admit that injuries played a role in that. A couple missed games are just not statistically meaningful. Often players step up and play abnormally well when your best player is out, but it's not sustainable long term. It's relatively easy to compensate one or two games for any player. Teams primarily focused on Hayward this year defensively, even when he was being smothered and struggled he was opening up the court for others like hood to have more open looks. The other teams top wing defender always covered him when on the court, unless someone was crazy hot.

 

[Stoked]

Hayward is a terrific player and great piece. But for him, why would he stay with a treadmill team that can't make the playoffs? Why would the Jazz devote such resources to a player that is short of a legit #1 playing for a treadmill team? At this point, keeping him heading into the season would be the gamble.

It would be a gamble. Hayward will have a large market for his services. If the Jazz want a chance at landing him they need to make the major jump in the standings that we all want to see. if this team fights for home court next season then Jazz have a good chance at keeping him if that's what they want to do. If they are struggling to land the 7th or 8th seed again then he is as good as gone.

A trade might be a very realistic option.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I can find countless people around here who think it'd be prudent to pay him like a #1 though... thats the discrepancy i'm posting about..

The market will dictate his salary. Most likely that salary will be max. Does that mean he is as good as the stars of the league? No, there is a huge gap between him and the stars of this league that I doubt he ever tightens. Does that mean he should be paid the same? No, but there is a thing called the salary cap that makes him get paid the same. If the market was open do you think Lebron would be making 24 million? No he would be making a **** ton more. Should we let our best player go because you are mad that there is a salary cap that causes him to be paid the same as better player? Hell no. Should we trade Hayward? Like all of our players if a good trade comes along that makes us better then of course we should but that is a really dumb debate. The only question is about is if Hayward will walk away a take less money to get away from the Jazz. He has given no indication of that but the FO has a much better idea of that. Trading Hayward for an unproven draft pick that has a much less likelihood of becoming as good as Hayward makes little sense.Trading Hayward for a better player is unlikely but if the FO can pull that off, great. That puts Hayward in the same boat as pretty much every player in the League with the exception of a few players.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

We are Utah. Anytime a player hits UFA it will be a gamble. You can't just keep trading players once they hit their 7th or 8th years.

If we didnt want to worry about that problem, we should have drafted Jimmer Freddette.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also no one if going to give you anything of value for Hayward right now. He is in the last year of his contract. Boston might give you some table scraps for him.

 

[NUMBERICA]

We are Utah. Anytime a player hits UFA it will be a gamble.

Not when the team is good. The Jazz aren't good.

 

[Stoked]

Not when the team is good. The Jazz aren't good.

I disagree. They are good but not great. Not yet anyways.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I disagree. They are good but not great. Not yet anyways.

More than half the teams in the NBA in a given year make the playoffs. The Jazz couldn't make them. Yes, the injuries sucked, but this was also the weakest field they could've played against. How bad the majority of the Western Conference is a way bigger outlier than the amount of the Jazz's injuries. They had the 12th worst record in basketball. I see the potential, but the results don't point "good" to me. Certainly not good enough to entice free agents, even their own.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Not when the team is good. The Jazz aren't good.

I agree, the best way to keep Hayward is to make the playoffs next year and be pushing for homecourt advantage.

 

[fishonjazz]

Should we let our best player go because you are mad that there is a salary cap that causes him to be paid the same as better player?

No. We should let him go so he doesn't hurt us in the future if we want to pay other players. Because there is a salary cap and luxury tax in the nba so there is a limited amount of money that the jazz are going to spend.
If one guy is going to take up such a huge chunk of it then I think it should be someone who is better than Hayward.

I think pretty much everyone hated AK's contact. Why would we be cool with making the same mistake again?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

No. We should let him go so he doesn't hurt us in the future if we want to pay other players. Because there is a salary cap and luxury tax in the nba so there is a limited amount of money that the jazz are going to spend.
If one guy is going to take up such a huge chunk of it then I think it should be someone who is better than Hayward.

I think pretty much everyone hated AK's contact. Why would we be cool with making the same mistake again?

Dont compare Gordon to AK.

 

[fishonjazz]

We are Utah. Anytime a player hits UFA it will be a gamble. You can't just keep trading players once they hit their 7th or 8th years.
.

Do you think if the jazz had drafted durant and his contract was about to end, jazz fans would be saying we should trade him or not re-sign him?
I don't. We don't want the jazz to just keep trading players when they get to their 7th and 8th years in the league. We just want them to keep the right players at the right price for their production I think.