BYU - it's time come out of the dark ages.

[colton]

Women should fear reporting sexual assault.

Typo, I assume.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Typo, I assume.

Yep, fixed.

 

[fishonjazz]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if [MENTION=422]jazzman12[/MENTION], [MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION], @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

 

[♪alt13]

Correct. But as I pointed out in an earlier post, there's no evidence that it's lowered by much. This would only be a factor in rapes that occur in situations where the victim was engaging in activities which are against the Honor Code. Such as drugs, which was the situation for the girl mentioned in the article who was expelled. That's going to be a very low fraction of rapes, in my opinion. So yes--lower than they should be, by how much we don't know, but probably not by very much.

So I think fishonjazz's statement is completely correct. Even if BYU's rape statistics are slightly elevated because of this, the number of reported rapes are so low at BYU compared to most other universities that like fish, I still believe that fewer--FAR FEWER--women are getting raped at BYU than almost all other schools.

Mormons are no less likely to commit rape than the average person. It seems like when discussing rape we often forget that there is a rapist involved. We too often try to draw situational conclusions forgetting that it is a minority of men from all sorts of backgrounds that do this and that they tend to be repeat offenders. This lends me to believe that most of the deviation from the norm on rape numbers has to do with the number of women that report. I think the stigma attached to being a rape victim is going to be much higher at BYU than at other schools. I think this because that's what women are saying. Beyond just the HC, women lose the right to save themselves for marriage. I imagine that for any Mormon not just a BYU student that adds extra sting and they may want to hide it from their peers.
I don't think BYU or Mormons should be defensive about this. I think they should ignore the haters but they should listen to these women, thank them for their bravery, and use it as an opportunity to make the community a better place for their daughters.

 

[JazzGal]

All women live in a "culture of fear" as far as sexual assault is concerned. It doesn't matter where we are. Every one of us has had to think about and handle things that men do not. Although it is not a conscious fear every moment of our lives, we daily make decisions subconsciously because of it (where to park, where to walk, what to wear, where to look when unknown men are around, etc). I'm sure it isn't any different at BYU than anywhere else. Women still have to stay aware of their surroundings.

 

[fishonjazz]

All women live in a "culture of fear" as far as sexual assault is concerned. It doesn't matter where we are. Every one of us has had to think about and handle things that men do not. Although it is not a conscious fear every moment of our lives, we daily make decisions subconsciously because of it (where to park, where to walk, what to wear, where to look when unknown men are around, etc).

Would you be more afraid to attend byu than all other schools like green would be for his daughter?

 

[franklin]

I would not and it it's too bad you can't see past sports.

90% of rapes in Provo go unreported. At BYU, girls who are sexually assaulted are investigated for honor code violations when many never violated the honor code.

And you brush it off like its no big deal.

My sister was raped when she was 14. It has destroyed her life.

This American Life did a podcast about a girl who was raped, no one believed her and evidence was found two years later that she was raped by someone who raped at least 4 girls afterwards.

https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/581/anatomy-of-doubt

To make light of this is sickening.

To create a culture where a woman who is sexually assaulted is afraid to come forward is disgusting.

Then to know that the person who assaulted her is still on the loose because of that environment.

Disgusting.

This is not a BYU vs Utah thing. This is reality. Get over that and take off your blue goggles.

I'm shocked and revolted by our society's high rate of sexual abuse. I would not be surprised if the true rate of women who have been abused is 60-70%. It's disgustingly prevalent.


On the BYU issue, I would never attend a place with an honor code like that even if I were the most devout LDS member. I never understood the audacity of a religion that seems to be grounded in free agency to force that kind of control over younger adults.

 

[franklin]

All women live in a "culture of fear" as far as sexual assault is concerned. It doesn't matter where we are. Every one of us has had to think about and handle things that men do not. Although it is not a conscious fear every moment of our lives, we daily make decisions subconsciously because of it (where to park, where to walk, what to wear, where to look when unknown men are around, etc).

This is why I am thankful every time our ultrasounds show a penis.

 

[Gameface]

I think it's pretty weird that this has turned into a "BYU is no worse than anywhere else" discussion rather than a "the title IX office passing on info to the Honor Code Office is bad" discussion.

 

[fishonjazz]

I think it's pretty weird that this has turned into a "BYU is no worse than anywhere else" discussion rather than a "the title IX office passing on info to the Honor Code Office is bad" discussion.

It turned that way due to the comments green made that byu has a culture of fear (I'm finding out that all universities have a culture of fear apparently), that byu let's rapists run free (as if byu is finding rapists and high fiving them and then turning the other cheek and letting them go) and that he wouldnt let his daughter attend byu because it's too scary.

Everyone has discussed the issue of the honor code punishing victims of rape and often making them not want to report it cause they don't want to be punished for their honor code violations. Everyone single one of us has said that is wrong and needs to change iirc.

 

[JazzGal]

I think it's pretty weird that this has turned into a "BYU is no worse than anywhere else" discussion rather than a "the title IX office passing on info to the Honor Code Office is bad" discussion.

Good point. All Mormon related topics online tend to get derailed. Keeping the information separate would be a relatively easy fix and one I hope is done sooner rather than later. That is the ultimate lesson from all of this.

Would you be more afraid to attend byu than all other schools like green would be for his daughter?

There are many reasons why I was never interested in attending BYU. Safety was never one of them. The Honor Code was not one either, but then it wasn't strictly enforced back then (e.g. Jim McMahon) and hardly ever came up in conversation. My nephew attends BYU now, and I would have no problem with any of my nieces and nephews attending there if that is what they wanted to do. So far we have Dixie, Weber, BYU, and UofU covered in the family, and it looks like the next one is headed for USU. I don't feel that any of them are more or less safe than the others. I've known enough BYU students to know that the Honor Code is broken by almost everyone at some point.

The things I would wish for students who attend BYU is that they get to choose it for themselves instead of family/religious pressure, that they understand the implications of the Honor Code, and also that there is a possibility that their feelings about the rules may change as time goes on and what their options are at that point. Parents who will only help with colleges expenses at BYU or not at all are risking their child's future.

 

[colton]

I think it's pretty weird that this has turned into a "BYU is no worse than anywhere else" discussion rather than a "the title IX office passing on info to the Honor Code Office is bad" discussion.

I think it's because we're all in agreement about the latter, but apparently many (well, green vs fish and me) are in stark disagreement about the former.

 

[colton]

It turned that way due to the comments green made that byu has a culture of fear (I'm finding out that all universities have a culture of fear apparently), that byu let's rapists run free (as if byu is finding rapists and high fiving them and then turning the other cheek and letting them go) and that he wouldnt let his daughter attend byu because it's too scary.

Everyone has discussed the issue of the honor code punishing victims of rape and often making them not want to report it cause they don't want to be punished for their honor code violations. Everyone single one of us has said that is wrong and needs to change iirc.

Yeah, what he said.

 

[Ron Mexico]

All women live in a "culture of fear" as far as sexual assault is concerned. It doesn't matter where we are. Every one of us has had to think about and handle things that men do not. Although it is not a conscious fear every moment of our lives, we daily make decisions subconsciously because of it (where to park, where to walk, what to wear, where to look when unknown men are around, etc). I'm sure it isn't any different at BYU than anywhere else. Women still have to stay aware of their surroundings.

This is one of the saddest truthful things about our society. I wish we/I could change that. I try very hard to think of situations from a women's perspective when talking to them or even walking down the street, but I cant truly understand what its like or how women feel.

On another note I think that sadly BYU luls parents and students to sleep in regards to sexual assault. I just talked to my brother who has 2 daughters at BYU about this lightly and he felt like his daughters were safe and not concerned. I think he daughters probably feel the same. In some regards this is nice that they are not as fearful but I feel like its being naive in some regards.

 

[Ron Mexico]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if @jazzman12, @Broncster, @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

I wouldnt send my daughters (if I had one) to BYU and I would discourage them from going to BYU but not necessarily for this issue. I am morally opposed to many of BYU's/Mormon beliefs and would not want them to have to be pressured by it or deal with the moral high ground people looking down at them. I would not want them to feel the puritanical pressure that is involved with religion in general that I think is a huge cause for some of the rape culture that exhists. However if my daughter chose BYU I would be no more/less afraid for their safety in regards to assault than any other campus.

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

So it seems like everyone in this thread agrees that the honor code should not be scaring women from reporting rapes and that the honor code and byu should not look to punish a victim of rape.

Im curious if [MENTION=422]jazzman12[/MENTION], [MENTION=181]Broncster[/MENTION], @alt13 (hey hey) etc agree with green about never letting a daughter attend byu.
If you were raising a daughter and she wanted to go to byu because they had a great program in the specific category that she wanted to study and she worked her butt off and got a scholarship offer to byu and wanted to attend would you guys try to stop her because you were afraid for her safety at byu?

I happen to have an 18 year old daughter who is currently considering scholorship offers in Drama from a few different in-state schools and a couple of out of state schools (yes, that is me bragging). To directly answer your question: No, I would not be more afraid of my daughter being assaulted at BYU anymore the other schools she is considering, but that's not the real issue, is it? Some of you are trying to bury the lead and shame on you for doing so. The real issue that is being pushed to the forefront is: If my daughter were to attend BYU and she was sexually assaulted, are they going to treat her like the victim, or the violator?

It doesn't take a ton of common sense to see that if indeed sexual assault victims are being punished after reporting these crimes, it's going to create a culture of fear amongst BYU female students to come forward, and in turn, it will only embolden the perpatrators of these awful crimes to continue to do so.

If you're a guy who's perfectly fine sending your daughter to BYU, I guess that's where we differ as fathers. Rape can happen on any campus but I'm going to try and steer my daughter clear of attending an institution that fosters an environment making sexual assault victims apprehensive about reporting the crime out of fear that they themselves will be treated like the criminal.

 

[fishonjazz]

1 in 4 college women have survived rape or attempted rape.
9.8% of victims in Utah report to law enforcement.
Nation-wide, one-third of college men reported they would rape a woman if they knew they would not get caught.

Shocking statistics

 

[fishonjazz]

From this article https://universe.byu.edu/2014/11/12/violent-crime-is-low-in-utah-overall-but-rape-rates-are-high/ : Utah has a struggle with rape in general. Violent crime in Utah is quite low, but rape is quite high.

The article is mostly about violent crime in the state of utah in general.

 

[fishonjazz]

Utah

• 1 in 3 women will experience some form of sexual violence during their lives.

• Approximately 1 in 8 women will be raped sometime during their lifetimes.

• 78.7% of victims were first assaulted before their 18th birthday.

• Only 9.8% of rapes were reported to law enforcement.

• Rape is the only category of violent crime whose rate exceeds the national average.

Source: “Rape in Utah: A Survey of Utah Women About Their Experiences with Sexual Violence.” Utah Commission on Criminal and Juvenile Justice, 2007.



Colleges and Universities

• Among college students nationwide, between 20% and 25% of women reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape.

• Of surveyed college women, about 90% of rape and sexual assault victims knew their attacker (boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, classmate, friend, acquaintance or co-worker) prior to the assault.

• In another survey of college women, 13.3% indicated that they have been forced to have sex in a dating situation.

• 75% of the time acquaintance rape on college campuses involves a male perpetrator under the influence of alcohol/drugs; over 50% of women victims reported being intoxicated or “mildly buzzed."

• Women who use drugs, attend a university with high drinking rates, belong in a sorority, and drank heavily in high school are at greater risk for rape while intoxicated.


United States

• Approximately 302,100 women and 92,700 men are forcibly raped each year in the United States.

• Over 32,000 pregnancies result from rape every year in the United States.

• Rape and sexual assault is the least often reported violent crime.

• The closer the relationship between the victim and the offender, the greater the likelihood that the victim would not report the crime to the police.

• Among children confirmed by child protective service agencies as being maltreated, 9.5% were sexually abused.

• More than half of all rapes of women (54%) occur before age 18; 22% of these rapes occur before age 12. For men, 75% of all rapes occur before age 18, and 48% occur before age 12.

• American Indian and Alaskan Native women are significantly more likely (34%) to be raped than African American women (19%) or White women (18%).

• Chances of developing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after being raped are between 50 and 95%.

• After a rape, victims are 10 times more likely to abuse drugs, and 14 times more likely to have significant alcohol dependencies.

Crazy statistics. Amazing how much rape is taking place. If 1 in 8 women will be raped in their lifetime then does that mean that 1 in 8 men are rapists?

 

[ConradA24]

Crazy statistics. Amazing how much rape is taking place. If 1 in 8 women will be raped in their lifetime then does that mean that 1 in 8 men are rapists?

Not necessarily, didn't someone (you?) post that most rapists are repeat offenders? Or was that just one situation? Those are some sobering statistics though.