Anyone for Cousins?

[NAOS]

Thanks, but no thanks.

medical professionals fawn over Cousins' skills. For this reason alone, I thought you two would be copacetic.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Yes, you did. But part of my point is that IF the only way Cousins is not a destructive force/presence on his team is if he lands up in some ideal spot, that is not saying anything very complimentary of him. Part of maturity is making the best of less than ideal situations, while not being such a damned sourpuss and malcontent that you bring everyone else down with you as well

Dennis Rodman Charles Barkley Ron Artest and many other immature players all thrived in the right environment. Cousins did too. Sac is the wrong environment for everyone.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I would also point out that Karl Malone was probably as big or bigger of a head case then Cousins, but he was in a great system with great teammates and owner that really kept him in check.

 

[homeytennis]

I would also point out that Karl Malone was probably as big or bigger of a head case then Cousins, but he was in a great system with great teammates and owner that really kept him in check.

Sloan did a pretty good job of keeping Karl in check. I think the Mailman is a pussycat compared to Cuz. I can't imagine the Mailman blowing up a coach before the guy set foot in the door. His mama would have paddled his behind.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Dennis Rodman Charles Barkley Ron Artest and many other immature players all thrived in the right environment. Cousins did too. Sac is the wrong environment for everyone.

They were immature, but they did not, to my memory, pull the team down with them, rather, they contributed to a winning teams (if not always contenders) thus were on balance positive forces for their teams, despite all their problems. (I may be remembering incorrectly but don't have the time to source check myself.) Cousins, in contrast, is a main contributor to the losing/negative environment in Sacramento. He's had several coaches, many teammates, management changes and an ownership change, yet nothing ever changes in terms of outcomes. He's the one constant to all the turmoil and losing in Sacramento. At some point, you really need to stop pointing the finger at everyone and everything except Cousins. He's a major part of the problem, I don't see how anyone can deny it at this point.

Your arguments seem to be to be like you're defending a guy who's been married and divorced multiple times arguing that all he needs is the perfect wife in the perfect situation and the next marriage will finally work. By this point, however, it's hard to escape the conclusion that it can't always just be the wife's fault, he has to bear some blame as well and probably a good share of it.

I think the better example for you is Zach Randolph. This is a guy who was a major head case early on and turned it around. So, I suppose it can be done. I have no insight into Cousins' psyche, I can only judge by what I see repeated over and over and over again. I could be wrong, I am not a psychologist, I only play one on Jazzfanz.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Sloan did a pretty good job of keeping Karl in check. I think the Mailman is a pussycat compared to Cuz. I can't imagine the Mailman blowing up a coach before the guy set foot in the door. His mama would have paddled his behind.

I love Malone and all, but he only seemed like a pussycat. Because LHM was like a father to him. Let's not forget he had sex with an under aged person and there was that time he blew up and trashed the org and LHM for a solid week on a radio show because he was upset with his contract.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I love Malone and all, but he only seemed like a pussycat. Because LHM was like a father to him. Let's not forget he had sex with an under aged person and there was that time he blew up and trashed the org and LHM for a solid week on a radio show because he was upset with his contract.

Did he quit playing in the court and throw fits? Malone had off the court issues but worked his *** off in his free time time to be better and brought his A game when the whistle blew. He also was a winner. Malone is a terrible comparison. I would take a chance on Cousins hoping he would change, if the trade wasn't too much. But let's not pretend losing and his poor attitude are not 100% his fault. He needs to grow up, accept responsibility and start giving it his all on and off the court if he wants to amount to anything. He is used to being the biggest kid and having everything given to him and being pampered by coaches. I think it's possible he changes but it's a big risk to bet on.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

They were immature, but they did not, to my memory, pull the team down with them, rather, they contributed to a winning teams (if not always contenders) thus were on balance positive forces for their teams, despite all their problems. (I may be remembering incorrectly but don't have the time to source check myself.) Cousins, in contrast, is a main contributor to the losing/negative environment in Sacramento. He's had several coaches, many teammates, management changes and an ownership change, yet nothing ever changes in terms of outcomes. He's the one constant to all the turmoil and losing in Sacramento. At some point, you really need to stop pointing the finger at everyone and everything except Cousins. He's a major part of the problem, I don't see how anyone can deny it at this point.

Your arguments seem to be to be like you're defending a guy who's been married and divorced multiple times arguing that all he needs is the perfect wife in the perfect situation and the next marriage will finally work. By this point, however, it's hard to escape the conclusion that it can't always just be the wife's fault, he has to bear some blame as well and probably a good share of it.

I think the better example for you is Zach Randolph. This is a guy who was a major head case early on and turned it around. So, I suppose it can be done. I have no insight into Cousins' psyche, I can only judge by what I see repeated over and over and over again. I could be wrong, I am not a psychologist, I only play one on Jazzfanz.

Wrong again.

None of those players played for an org nearly as bad as this kings org. Let's not also forget some of the antics of Artest Chuck and the worm. Artest is the one that got in a fight with an entire fan base inside an arena and screwed his team by getting suspended for an entire year. Chuck got in countless bar fights and on the court, and Rodman was run off the Spurs because they were tired of him. But all were in much better situations then Cousins. He hasn't done any worse then any of those guys, and too my knowledge has been a fine citizen in his community. It's funny u should mention Randolph. That basically makes my case. The second he left the jailblazers he no longer was a problem player.

Also wrong in saying that Cousins is the one constant to the Kings org formula. Kings were a laughing stock before Cousins was even drafted. Only thing that will turn things around is a LBJ or Jordan type of player. What's going on in kings land is not Cousins fault. Cousins has been in Siberia for his entire career. I've also heard numerous reports that most of his teammates say he is a great teammates.

I'm not trying to say that cousins is an angel, but it's human nature for someone to become even more irritable douchey the longer they have to endure a bad situation.

Look at a pitbull. They have wonderful dispositions and are a great family dog, but put them with a neglectful owner, and what happens to that sweet wonderful dog?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Did he quit playing in the court and throw fits? Malone had off the court issues but worked his *** off in his free time time to be better and brought his A game when the whistle blew. He also was a winner. Malone is a terrible comparison. I would take a chance on Cousins hoping he would change, if the trade wasn't too much. But let's not pretend losing and his poor attitude are not 100% his fault. He needs to grow up, accept responsibility and start giving it his all on and off the court if he wants to amount to anything. He is used to being the biggest kid and having everything given to him and being pampered by coaches. I think it's possible he changes but it's a big risk to bet on.

Last I checked losing isn't just the one persons fault. Let's also not forget how unstable the org has been as far as getting new coaches every year to every other year and rumors of the team moving to getting new owners with wild and outlandish ideas causing a coach to be fired. Put Malone in that environment and he goes hog crazy after a couple years. Let's not forget he was in the most stable environment in all of the NBA, played for exactly two coaches and played with the greatest passing pg of all time and his owner was like a father to him. If anything Malone might have been more uncontrollable then Cousins in this kings team.

I know it's only one year at Kentucky, but none the less he had little to no problems her. Even in Malone's ideal situation. He still had his many issues. He is a problem in Sac, but I doubt he's as big a problem as most of u think he is.

 

[Douchebag K]

Good analogy. Cousins = pit bull. In bad circumstances they're a snarling mess, and even in the right setting there is always a chance they may kill one of your family.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Last I checked losing isn't just the one persons fault. Let's also not forget how unstable the org has been as far as getting new coaches every year to every other year and rumors of the team moving to getting new owners with wild and outlandish ideas causing a coach to be fired. Put Malone in that environment and he goes hog crazy after a couple years. Let's not forget he was in the most stable environment in all of the NBA, played for exactly two coaches and played with the greatest passing pg of all time and his owner was like a father to him. If anything Malone might have been more uncontrollable then Cousins in this kings team.

I know it's only one year at Kentucky, but none the less he had little to no problems her. Even in Malone's ideal situation. He still had his many issues. He is a problem in Sac, but I doubt he's as big a problem as most of u think he is.

I haven't forgot those things. It's still him to blame. Should others take some blame? Sure. But he is at the front of the blame. Put Karl on that team and he wins. He also makes his teammates better by pushing them on and off the court. He doesn't get that many coaches fired and he doesn't make his teammates want to leave which is where the instability comes from. Yes according to PKM he was okay for his 6 months at UK as a freshman, that argument is pointless. An 18 year old kid not throwing a fit and blaming teammates and coaches is not surprising especially since they had tons of talent and were winning. Leave him there a couple years to get comfortable and make him have some adversity and you get the same kid throwing a fit. I hope he figures it out and changes as well but changes from him are needed. The kings are seemingly not the best run but he could succeed there if he changes its not their fault for his behavior.

Sent from my 0PM92 using JazzFanz mobile app

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I haven't forgot those things. It's still him to blame. Should others take some blame? Sure. But he is at the front of the blame. Put Karl on that team and he wins. He also makes his teammates better by pushing them on and off the court. He doesn't get that many coaches fired and he doesn't make his teammates want to leave which is where the instability comes from. Yes according to PKM he was okay for his 6 months at UK as a freshman, that argument is pointless. An 18 year old kid not throwing a fit and blaming teammates and coaches is not surprising especially since they had tons of talent and were winning. Leave him there a couple years to get comfortable and make him have some adversity and you get the same kid throwing a fit. I hope he figures it out and changes as well but changes from him are needed. The kings are seemingly not the best run but he could succeed there if he changes its not their fault for his behavior.

Sent from my 0PM92 using JazzFanz mobile app

We are talking about a rookie Malone coming onto this kings team with an unstable org with a coach he doesn't respect and bad teammates. Karl didn't come in and start right a way he was behind one of the top offensive players. And it's well documented how Cousins never got the ball his first couple years in the league due to a lack of a System on offense. It was every man for himself where Malone either had Ricky Green or John freaking Stockton passing him the ball.

U can't tell me that Cousins wouldn't have been less whinny or whatever had he started his career on the same team as Malone, and u can't say for a fact that Malone would've still been the same great teammate starting his career on this kings team. Let's not forget Malone had every bit the volatile temper as anyone.

Our circumstances play a role in shaping who we are. Again I'm not making excuses for how Cousins acts, but there's a lot to consider.

 

[Ron Mexico]

We are talking about a rookie Malone coming onto this kings team with an unstable org with a coach he doesn't respect and bad teammates. Karl didn't come in and start right a way he was behind one of the top offensive players. And it's well documented how Cousins never got the ball his first couple years in the league due to a lack of a System on offense. It was every man for himself where Malone either had Ricky Green or John freaking Stockton passing him the ball.

U can't tell me that Cousins wouldn't have been less whinny or whatever had he started his career on the same team as Malone, and u can't say for a fact that Malone would've still been the same great teammate starting his career on this kings team. Let's not forget Malone had every bit the volatile temper as anyone.

Our circumstances play a role in shaping who we are. Again I'm not making excuses for how Cousins acts, but there's a lot to consider.

Cousins has faced adversity (which would have come no matter the team or what life presented him) with complaining and childish behavior. Malone has faced adversity with hardwork in his career. He would have worked hard and become a great player. This years lineup with Malone instead of Cousins would have made the playoffs. Rondo would not stop smiling if he had prime Karl Malone on his team.

Boo ****ing hoo Cousins didnt get the ball enough as a rookie. Boo ****ing hoo he didnt win enough as a rookie. Guess what most rookies dont get the ball much and dont win when they play much, especially high pick rookies. Maybe he should appreciate that he was born with the body and genetics that would get him into the NFL or NBA no matter what he chose to do in his life. He was born with a life of making millions as long as he stayed out of prison. He was born with the chance to be an elite high level athlete that could dominate his sport if he worked hard and didnt poison the well. Hope he realizes this and changes but who knows, many people in his same position dont.

It was Cousins choice not to respect other NBA players and his NBA coaches. Other people respected those same players and coaches. Cousins would have been more quiet at first if he had a winning team and really good players on his team until they hit a speed bump and started losing...

Dont blame his behavior on his situation. You choose your behavior in every situation, it is not chosen for you.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Cousins has faced adversity (which would have come no matter the team or what life presented him) with complaining and childish behavior. Malone has faced adversity with hardwork in his career. He would have worked hard and become a great player. This years lineup with Malone instead of Cousins would have made the playoffs. Rondo would not stop smiling if he had prime Karl Malone on his team.

Boo ****ing hoo Cousins didnt get the ball enough as a rookie. Boo ****ing hoo he didnt win enough as a rookie. Guess what most rookies dont get the ball much and dont win when they play much, especially high pick rookies. Maybe he should appreciate that he was born with the body and genetics that would get him into the NFL or NBA no matter what he chose to do in his life. He was born with a life of making millions as long as he stayed out of prison. He was born with the chance to be an elite high level athlete that could dominate his sport if he worked hard and didnt poison the well. Hope he realizes this and changes but who knows, many people in his same position dont.

It was Cousins choice not to respect other NBA players and his NBA coaches. Other people respected those same players and coaches. Cousins would have been more quiet at first if he had a winning team and really good players on his team until they hit a speed bump and started losing...

Dont blame his behavior on his situation. You choose your behavior in every situation, it is not chosen for you.

I'm not dismissing his behavior all together and would u blame a vicious pitbull or most of the blame on the neglectful owner? I don't think for a second that Cousins is the model player on the Jazz, but he's not as bad on Malone's team. But to put all the blame for the teams failure squarely on Cousins is rediculous and idiotic.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I'm not dismissing his behavior all together and would u blame a vicious pitbull or most of the blame on the neglectful owner? I don't think for a second that Cousins is the model player on the Jazz, but he's not as bad on Malone's team. But to put all the blame for the teams failure squarely on Cousins is rediculous and idiotic.

Cousins isnt a dog he is a human, and the comparison is terrible. Do you think human and dogs brain function the same? Do you think he has 0 power to change his situation like a dog with an abusive owner does?

All the blame of his team losing isnt on him, but that doesnt really matter what percentage of blame we put on anyone, that is purely arbitrary assignment. I said the organization and other players should take blame as well but they are a separate discussion, frankly they should have traded him already, his behavior is unlikely to change if they bend over for him. He is 100% to blame for his behavior. He has a choice for that. But he also needs to take blame for them losing and work harder.

The fact is he could have succeeded despite the situation. He could have supported his coach and teammates and worked hard to make himself better and teammates better, he chose not to.

 

[gregbroncs]

Is Cousins immature? Yes. Is it magnified by being on the worst run org in all of pro sports, and not just the NBA? Yes.

Here's another fact. He, according to dr Jones was a great teammate at Kentucky. I'd bitch too if I had to spend my best years on that Sac team. Hell, he doesn't even have teammates conducive to winning. He's in a black hole with no team ball and some pretty bad coaches. Hell, the only good coach they've had since he's been there was Malone, and he got canned after one year. Hell, I would give Favors and Hayward and whatever draft picks they want for him, and we'd be instantly better, along with Cousins changing his act.

I hate everything about that franchise. It's where players, and coaches go to whither and die. I've wanted Cousins out of there for a while. Either with us or somewhere in the east.

I believe Cousins is the major reason that franchise sucks. When he goes somewhere else he'll drag that franchise into the abyss as well. You can't win with malcontents that refuse to get along with others. You can't win with lazy asses if they are your star player. You can't win with guys like Cousins. Let somebody else screw up their franchise paying a kings ransom for him.

As far as the get over myself comment, Yes I'm being selfish. I won't watch a team consistently with that player on it. If he's on the Jazz I won't watch. He's terrible for his team and the league. His attitude on the court is pathetic, and makes the game no longer entertaining. I watch sports to be entertained and he ruins that for me. Therefore I have no interest in him on my favorite team. Honestly even if they surround him with a great cast and they start winning, unless his on the court behavior changes completely I would not watch.

 

[The Thriller]

Hell no.

No one on this roster or coaching staff is strong enough to deal with his personality.

The only way cousins works out is if we had a vet superstar like Wade, LBJ, Durant, etc to keep him in line.

Instead, we are led by a coach with goofy hair and a role player who allowed Delonte West to wet willy him.

 

[gregbroncs]

Look at his time in Kentucky. Was a great teammate. I didn't excuse his behavior, just that his level of maturity decreases after being in a not so good environment for so long. If u had to endure what he has had your attitude would suffer as well. All I'm saying is that in the right situation I'm a big believer in Cousins.

So 6 months of winning makes up for years of acting like an *******? He's been like this his entire career, not just the last few years.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Wrong again.

None of those players played for an org nearly as bad as this kings org. Let's not also forget some of the antics of Artest Chuck and the worm. Artest is the one that got in a fight with an entire fan base inside an arena and screwed his team by getting suspended for an entire year. Chuck got in countless bar fights and on the court, and Rodman was run off the Spurs because they were tired of him. But all were in much better situations then Cousins. He hasn't done any worse then any of those guys, and too my knowledge has been a fine citizen in his community. It's funny u should mention Randolph. That basically makes my case. The second he left the jailblazers he no longer was a problem player.

Also wrong in saying that Cousins is the one constant to the Kings org formula. Kings were a laughing stock before Cousins was even drafted. Only thing that will turn things around is a LBJ or Jordan type of player. What's going on in kings land is not Cousins fault. Cousins has been in Siberia for his entire career. I've also heard numerous reports that most of his teammates say he is a great teammates.

I'm not trying to say that cousins is an angel, but it's human nature for someone to become even more irritable douchey the longer they have to endure a bad situation.

Look at a pitbull. They have wonderful dispositions and are a great family dog, but put them with a neglectful owner, and what happens to that sweet wonderful dog?

Sorry, I don't see what I said that's wrong. I concede that the players you mentioned had problems, but my point was that they didn't drag their teams down with them, while arguably, and evidently, Cousins bad behavior has. So, demonstrating that these other players had behavioral issues in no way refutes my point, which is HOW their behavior has so adversely affected the performance of their teams, as has Cousins'.

It's a double causation arrow; Cousins is douchey because he's in a bad situation, but at the same time, he douchey behavior is a contributing factor to the bad situation.

Cousins IS a constant; early everything around him has changed since he's been there, and on-the-court performance has remained putrid. What is a (not the) common thread to all of these across the years, Cousins, that's what I concede management has been consistently bad, but to continuing to to argue that Cousins is not an important contributing factor to these problems is verging now on the ridiculous. Wear blinders much?

Can you at least concede that Cousins is a contributing factor to his bad situation?

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Instead, we are led by a coach with goofy hair and a role player who allowed Delonte West to wet willy him.

Oh Jesus, give it up already. Your strange obsession with the 'wet willy incident' is just weird at this point.