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Gay Nightclub mass shooting -- Orlando, Florida

  • Thread starter Thread starter Deleted member 848
  • Start date Start date
Until religions and religious institutions rid themselves of such despicable views and the people who espouse them or we get rid ourselves from religious indoctrination, things like this will keep happening:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

I feel gutted for the victims and their families. This is just so incredibly sad. :(
 
mellow said:
Sigh. I'm sorry for the poor people there. I'm sad for the conditions that exist that make some people believe violence is okay. I'm scared that this is Another wedge to drive into the heart of the nation that is already splitting. I will be angry when the politicians and talking heads use this to further divide people on their pet peeve issues.
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100 times this. The poor families. I hope we all hate a little less.
 
****s scary man, people willing to kill others just because they believe differently. RIP to those who passed.
 
dalamon said:
How's this for a stat:


8 mass shootings in Canada in the last 20 years.

7 in America since last Monday
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Maybe now isn't the right time to say neener-neener, but do what you've got to do.
 
Gameface said:
Maybe now isn't the right time to say neener-neener, but do what you've got to do.
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Trust me, I didn't mean it in that way. I was just floored to see the contrast, and felt it was worth sharing.
 
This attack is unusual, to say the least. It is simply not the typical MO of radical Islamists to target elements of Western society they disapprove of, and they often go for indiscriminate civilian casualties as to incite terror within society. I am inclined to assume that this individual was fully assimilated in American society, as those kinds of attacks are more commonly conducted by Western elements like White Supremacists and radical Christians.
 
Siro said:
This attack is unusual, to say the least. It is simply not the typical MO of radical Islamists to target elements of Western society they disapprove of, and they often go for indiscriminate civilian casualties as to incite terror within society. I am inclined to assume that this individual was fully assimilated in American society, as those kinds of attacks are more commonly conducted by Western elements like White Supremacists and radical Christians.
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You don't get it. Islamists and jihadists despise a lot of aspects of western culture. In this case it's extremely well articulated. In others less so - the concert in Paris. Charlie Hebdo was another well articulated and specific attack against specific target.
 
stitches said:
You don't get it. Islamists and jihadists despise a lot of aspects of western culture. In this case it's extremely well articulated. In others less so - the concert in Paris. Charlie Hebdo was another well articulated and specific attack against specific target.
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Can u find any evidence of this terrorist being at ALL religious?
 
dalamon said:
Can u find any evidence of this terrorist being at ALL religious?
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Well, I'm going by what the FBI is saying. They say he's been on their watch list for connections with Islamic extremists. There are also news reports that the guy called 911 and swore his allegiance to al-Baghdadi of ISIS before the shooting massacre.

Bradd Jaffy @BraddJaffy

BREAKING: Just before shooting, gunman called 911, swore his allegiance to the head of ISIS, law enforcement officials tell @PeteWilliamsNBC
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stitches said:
You don't get it. Islamists and jihadists despise a lot of aspects of western culture. In this case it's extremely well articulated. In others less so - the concert in Paris. Charlie Hebdo was another well articulated and specific attack against specific target.
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I'm pretty sure I do get it. Charlie Hebdo attacks were a response to their Mohammad cartoons. This is the first time, as far as I'm aware, where a Muslim committed an act of terror in the fashion of typical Western hate crimes. In the Middle East, they do this all the time, because they are trying to shape society in their own vision. They have no such ambitions in the West.

I have little doubt that the terrorist in question has religious motives. It is difficult to hate gays strongly enough to want to kill them without the involvement of religion. But It will not be an ISIS directed attacks, regardless of the attacker's new-found allegiance to ISIS.
 
Siro said:
I'm pretty sure I do get it. Charlie Hebdo attacks were a response to their Mohammad cartoons. This is the first time, as far as I'm aware, where a Muslim committed an act of terror in the fashion of typical Western hate crimes. In the Middle East, they do this all the time, because they are trying to shape society in their own vision. They have no such ambitions in the West.

I have little doubt that the terrorist in question has religious motives. It is difficult to hate gays strongly enough to want to kill them without the involvement of religion. But It will not be an ISIS directed attacks, regardless of the attacker's new-found allegiance to ISIS.
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Yeah, that's fair. That's kind of a new type of terrorism I guess - lone wolves getting inspired by extremists, not directly getting instructions by ISIS or other terrorist organizations.. The San Bernardino one was perpetrated by lone wolves, too. Just in the first case the target seems more random, while now it looks more... targeted.
 
stitches said:
Well, I'm going by what the FBI is saying. They say he's been on their watch list for connections with Islamic extremists. There are also news reports that the guy called 911 and swore his allegiance to al-Baghdadi of ISIS before the shooting massacre.
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They specifically said he was not on any terror watch list. Where are you getting your info?
 
stitches said:
Yeah, that's fair. That's kind of a new type of terrorism I guess - lone wolves getting inspired by extremists, not directly getting instructions by ISIS or other terrorist organizations.. The San Bernardino one was perpetrated by lone wolves, too. Just in the first case the target seems more random, while now it looks more... targeted.
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Ya, that's all I'm saying. I'm pretty sure the motives are religious, but the target is unusual. Hard not to draw the conclusion that the attacker was an assimilated Westerner, because why else would you feel so strongly about gays in America? If you're the typical non-assimilated Muslim (rare in the US), then what would you care about American gay clubs? All non-Muslim would be equally guilty in your eyes anyway.
 
stitches said:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

I misspoke. They don't say he's been on their watch list, but they say he was investigated in 2013 and 2014 and “He’s been on the radar before.”
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For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.
 
Siro said:
For unrelated crimes. Nonetheless, this is an interesting development as it reminds us that anyone can become radicalized. Europe has a bigger terror problem than the US because the massive number of alienated Muslim youths who become radical because they want to belong to something. But as long as violent interpretations of religion exists, we can never have perfect security.
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Do you have source for this? All news articles I'm reading suggest that the investigations were related to his involvement with extremism.
 
stitches said:
Do you have source for this? All news articles I'm reading suggest that the investigations were related to his involvement with extremism.
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The BBC story has this sentence:

It is believed that the suspect, who was a US citizen from the Florida town of Port St Lucie and was of Afghan descent, was not on a terrorism watch list, although he was being investigated for an unrelated criminal act.
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I didn't check to see if they're correct, but that's where I got that info.
 
Both his father and ex-wife claim he is not religious. Ex-wife said he beat her, is violent and unstable, and her family had to rescue her from him. Father said he saw two men kissing and has been extremely upset about it. FBI briefly interrogated him a few years ago because of a jihad comment he made, apparently, but found nothing to justify surveillance. Perhaps he made the 911 call claiming ISIS affiliation knowing it would intensity the fear. Likely there are many motives combined.

Whatever the reason, it is tragic and sad and horrible.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using JazzFanz mobile app
 
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