Damning Report: Iraq War was unjustified
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fishonjazz
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Duh.
We all know that the iraq war was unjustified.
Have known it for a long time. This ain't news
We all know that the iraq war was unjustified.
Have known it for a long time. This ain't news
D
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A report like this has never been published on American soil. It also opens up the possibility for ppl like Blair to be tried for war crimes.
He's never going to be tried for war crimes.
fishonjazz
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Just saying. (Most) Americans have felt that the war in iraq was unjustified for many many years now.
The war was supposedly (wink wink) started because iraq had weapons of mass destruction (oil) and there were no wmd's ever found.
Plus from what I understand big George W had a vendetta against sadaam/iraq so therefore lil george w felt like it was personal.
The Thriller
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Anyone interested in how ridiculous the Iraqi war was/is, read Vince Bugliosi's book, "The Prosecution of George W Bush for Murder."
For those of you who don't already know, Bugliosi was known as one of the top prosecutors in the nation. He nailed Charles Manson and has written several awesome books on Kennedy, OJ Simpson, and now Bush. Everything is well cited and thoroughly explained.
Bush Lied Many Died
And continue to do so.
Vince died a few years ago. His book rings even more true about the disastrous war when you consider ISIS. We replaced the secular Hussein, who clearly wasn't a threat to anyone outside of his country, with ISIS, a clear global threat.
And at the time of the Iraqi war, the sanctions and no fly zones rendered him A very diminished threat to those in Kuwait and the Kurds living in the north. Besides, Iraq was provoked into invading Kuwait. They were playing games with the price of oil provoking Saddam Hussein into invasion.
Furthermore, it's not as if the Kurds are saints. At ISIS's birth, the Kurds housed radical jihadists. Then, once we invaded, banned any Sunnis and ex Baathists from the army and political power, ISIS found a fertile recruiting ground in the western (Sunni) dominated parts of the country.
Napoleon invaded Russia. Huge blunder in the 19th century.
Hitler started a 2 front war. Huge blunder in the 20th century.
Bush completely destablized that entire region. By far the largest blunder in this century. And it hasn't ended yet. Over one million Iraqis have died. And the death count keeps rising.
Libya, Egypt, Syria, even Jordan (a rational and moderate Arab nation. One of our few allies). And now it seems like ISIS is spreading to Southeast Asia.
ISIS wouldn't be had we never invaded. Its very founder was left with no where to go when we invaded Afghanistan. Had we focused on destroying al Qaeda Zarqawi would've either been eliminated or left without anywhere to go. Instead, we took our foot off the pedal and invaded Iraq. Giving him a place of refuge and new recruits.
Saddam, as tough as he was, wasn't any worse than any of the dictators in that region that we support. He kept the country together, kept terrorists out, and despised radical jihadists. He wasn't a threat. Radical jihadists were.
It's too bad Bush was too lazy or learn about the region before he invaded.
I can't wait to read this book.
For those of you who don't already know, Bugliosi was known as one of the top prosecutors in the nation. He nailed Charles Manson and has written several awesome books on Kennedy, OJ Simpson, and now Bush. Everything is well cited and thoroughly explained.
Bush Lied Many Died
And continue to do so.
Vince died a few years ago. His book rings even more true about the disastrous war when you consider ISIS. We replaced the secular Hussein, who clearly wasn't a threat to anyone outside of his country, with ISIS, a clear global threat.
And at the time of the Iraqi war, the sanctions and no fly zones rendered him A very diminished threat to those in Kuwait and the Kurds living in the north. Besides, Iraq was provoked into invading Kuwait. They were playing games with the price of oil provoking Saddam Hussein into invasion.
Furthermore, it's not as if the Kurds are saints. At ISIS's birth, the Kurds housed radical jihadists. Then, once we invaded, banned any Sunnis and ex Baathists from the army and political power, ISIS found a fertile recruiting ground in the western (Sunni) dominated parts of the country.
Napoleon invaded Russia. Huge blunder in the 19th century.
Hitler started a 2 front war. Huge blunder in the 20th century.
Bush completely destablized that entire region. By far the largest blunder in this century. And it hasn't ended yet. Over one million Iraqis have died. And the death count keeps rising.
Libya, Egypt, Syria, even Jordan (a rational and moderate Arab nation. One of our few allies). And now it seems like ISIS is spreading to Southeast Asia.
ISIS wouldn't be had we never invaded. Its very founder was left with no where to go when we invaded Afghanistan. Had we focused on destroying al Qaeda Zarqawi would've either been eliminated or left without anywhere to go. Instead, we took our foot off the pedal and invaded Iraq. Giving him a place of refuge and new recruits.
Saddam, as tough as he was, wasn't any worse than any of the dictators in that region that we support. He kept the country together, kept terrorists out, and despised radical jihadists. He wasn't a threat. Radical jihadists were.
It's too bad Bush was too lazy or learn about the region before he invaded.
I can't wait to read this book.
The Thriller
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You're right.
I've read 2 books on bush and 3 books on the Iraqi war. Fiasco, Imperial Life of the Emerald City, and Black Flags were awesome. From what I've read:
1. Bush had a Hangup with Iraq extending all the way back to when his own father was president. He felt like his dad should've taken over the entire country. He clearly didn't understand the demographics and history of the area.
2. Bush wanted to be seen as the Reagan of the 21st century. Hence, why he passed his tax cuts, passed no child left behind (similar to a nation at risk), and invaded Iraq in an attempt to change the ME in the same way Reagan changed Eastern Europe.
3. 9/11 was preventable. The CIA warned Bush on August 6, 2001 of extremely high levels of terrorist communications from al Qaeda and their possible plan to hijack aircraft to destroy American landmarks. Bush unfortunately, was known to skip out on reading. He preferred to jog and fish to reading. With devastating consequences:
https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/
4. The WMDs threat was known to be bogus to bush. Hence why he, through Rice, would change the classified CIA reports to exaggerate the threat and later declassify them making them available to the public and to Congress. So what congress was reading and what we could've read, was Bush's doctored up CIA reports rather than the actual CIA reports. CIA director George Tenet didn't call bush out on this because... Well it's obvious. Who's his boss? Calling out your boss who has a 90 percent approval rating probably isn't good for business.
5. Germany and France weren't against wars. France was one of the leading fighters in the war in Afghanistan. Contrary to how they were depicted back then, they weren't wussy pacifists.
But they knew that the threat wasn't Saddam, but radical jihadists, like Osama Bin Laden and Zarqawi (founder of ISIS). They knew that Iraq didn't have WMDs. They also foresaw the mess of destroying a secular government and replacing it with a democracy. Democracy in Iraq isn't possible with so many jihadists, Sunnis, Shia, etc living there.
The Thriller
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Americans should've known within a few weeks of the invasion of Saddam's lack of WMDs. If there was ever a time to use them, wouldn't it have been when he was fighting for survival? For what purpose would he have had in saving them for a "rainy day?"
The Thriller
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One last post.
I apologize, but health care and the Iraqi war are two subjects I become passionate about.
Bush was too stupid and too lazy to study up on history. He was born a billionaire, had his entire life served up on a silver platter, and just didn't care about learning history.
Why did Saddam Hussein want to give the impression to the world that he had WMDs? For what purpose? Simple:
He was a secular Sunni trying to Govern a Shia country. Of course he needed to give the impression that he had WMDs to aid with intimidation of his own people. To keep them in line.
Also, who was his next door neighbor? The theocratic and Shia dominated Iran. Who he waged a war with in the 80s (a war we supported him in).
So of course he wanted to give the impression to the Shia in his own country and to his neighbor Iran, that he had WMDs. when pressured hed always resist to allow inspectors to come in. That was to maintain the impression that he was hiding something. But ultimately hed give in and ultimately inspectors were allowed inside his country and never found any WMDs or of WMDs programs since he agreed to destroy them after the Persian gulf war.
Of course, Bush was too stupid and lazy to understand the history and demographics of this region.
A president needs to be up on the history of the world and be able to cut deals. Like Kennedy did during the Cuban mission crisis. Had bush been president he wouldn't have played ball with the Russians and would've escalated the situation to WWIII.
I apologize, but health care and the Iraqi war are two subjects I become passionate about.
Bush was too stupid and too lazy to study up on history. He was born a billionaire, had his entire life served up on a silver platter, and just didn't care about learning history.
Why did Saddam Hussein want to give the impression to the world that he had WMDs? For what purpose? Simple:
He was a secular Sunni trying to Govern a Shia country. Of course he needed to give the impression that he had WMDs to aid with intimidation of his own people. To keep them in line.
Also, who was his next door neighbor? The theocratic and Shia dominated Iran. Who he waged a war with in the 80s (a war we supported him in).
So of course he wanted to give the impression to the Shia in his own country and to his neighbor Iran, that he had WMDs. when pressured hed always resist to allow inspectors to come in. That was to maintain the impression that he was hiding something. But ultimately hed give in and ultimately inspectors were allowed inside his country and never found any WMDs or of WMDs programs since he agreed to destroy them after the Persian gulf war.
Of course, Bush was too stupid and lazy to understand the history and demographics of this region.
A president needs to be up on the history of the world and be able to cut deals. Like Kennedy did during the Cuban mission crisis. Had bush been president he wouldn't have played ball with the Russians and would've escalated the situation to WWIII.
green
Well-Known Member
When we look back 100 years from now, Bush may have gone down as the worst leader ever. He had terrorist attacks on US soil, the economy crashed under him, debt flew through the roof (and at least 1/3 of Obama's debt was a continuation of Bush's policies), and he may have started the next world war.
The guy was an idiot and a terrible president. Anyone who doesn't agree with this has their head in the sand.
If we could go back in time and remove one president from ever being president, it would be Bush and it isn't even close.
The guy was an idiot and a terrible president. Anyone who doesn't agree with this has their head in the sand.
If we could go back in time and remove one president from ever being president, it would be Bush and it isn't even close.
jimmy eat jazz
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The Iraq War was, without a doubt, the biggest foreign policy F-up since Vietnam, and possibly worse than Vietnam. Add to the war, the US' elevation of torture as an instrument of state policy.
Bush WILL go down as one of worst presidents in US history. What is kind of scary was that the same neocons who were the architects of this disastrous policy are still lurking around waiting to be rehabilitated by some Republican wanna-be president. I believe that Jeb Bush (if I remember correctly) had found a home for some of them on his foreign policy team.
leftyjace
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This could be true... provided Trump doesn't get elected.
If he does... well... I think we'll have a different idea of who the worst was.
The Thriller
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IMO it's far worse than Vietnam.
Vietnam didn't cause the complete instability of the region.
Look at how the Middle East has changed because we invaded:
1. Iraq is the world's #1 breeding ground for terrorism and radical jihadists. Over one million have died. How many more millions will die?
2. Syria is a mess now. Assad was actually considered a friend to American interests until he faced radical jihadists spilling into his country from Iraq. His response was to gas the hell out of them.
3. Jordan, one of our greatest allies in the Arab world now faces continued threats of terrorism and radical jihadists.
4. Egypt has changed leaders a few times.
5. Libya has changed its government.
6. Iran runs unchallenged without Saddam Hussein as a buffer.
7. We are trillions into the hole. It'll take us over 100 years to pay for that 10-15 year adventure into Iraq.
8. America's credibility has been permanently damaged.
9. Opportunities to actually fix Afghanistan have been lost due to our distraction into going into Iraq.
10. Million of refugees have left the Middle East into Europe. Bretexit probably doesn't happen without refugees. Refugees don't happen if we don't invade and make a cluster **** of Iraq.
The Iraqi war might easily go down as the holocaust, the Native American relocation, the European conquest of the Americas, the Spanish Inquisition, etc of the 21st century. A war which triggers the complete transformation of a region and of the world. Millions perhaps billions will be effected.
Most concerning is that it's not over yet. That region continues to hemmorage with terrorism, blood, oil, political instability, massive migrations, world religions, and ethnic rivalries. Involving the smallest Kurdish tribe to the world's largest superpowers.
Is a reality tv star ready for this?
I actually agree with this. What this amounts to is a rejection of the American CFR thinktanks and the US warhawks clique with their plan for modernizing the Mideast into a secular statist set of regimes though regional war, ultimately discrediting Islam like Christianity has been allegedly "discredited" in the West.
Pretty abhorrent sort of plan, really, worse than Islam itself. . . so far as human rights go.
I was against the Iraq war, and called in on KSL's Doug Wright show, and was cut off in the middle of my comment, not because I was talking funny, but because Sen. Bennett came on the line, and he was all for it. Utah's Committee on Foreign Relations has always gone along with these militarist schemes.
Hold up. There are people out there who still believe Sadam did not have WMD?
We found them
We have Ariel surveillance of him moving the into Syria. What you think the current tension there is over?
Most major European nations believed he had them as well as USA an Canada.
His own Generals said he had them.
How much more evidence do you need? That he was shooting at are protection fighter jets over the boarder in Kuwait? And we stood down for years. YEARS!
You One World Government types, how many times must we ask a dictator hell bent on destroying Isreal to allow us to inspect his centrifuges?
You have no answers.
Just cause it was a failure does not mean it was not justified.
I think I saw a comedy skit 1 time where it was like:
Narrator: So who was responsible for 9/11? Osama Binladin.
George Bush: Irag's dangerous!!! Let's invade them!!!!
Narrator: So who was responsible for 9/11? Osama Binladin.
George Bush: Irag's dangerous!!! Let's invade them!!!!
Keep casting.