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Can someone explain how police should handle people resisting arrest?

Dr. Jones said:
Haha..

That's about like this;

Conservative: Well, I see people in this town are in need. Let's open businesses and create jobs for them and we all prosper together. Amen.

Liberal: Well, I see people in this town are in need and a golden opportunity to add more to government welfare.. buying future votes for the dems for decades using the tax dollars of those evil job creators.
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You have to be joking. America ain't currently all prospering together, good sir. And it isn't due to a shortage of businesses. Look at gross economic growth over the last 8 years & compare to growth of living standards of the working class.
 
Gameface said:
I envision protocol training being part of driver's education. I also see it being part of any juvenile detention or any situation where a juvenile is involved with the juvenile justice system.

It would be fairly basic. When pulled over you do X until the officer asks for A, then you do Y to provide the officer with their request.

I think it is very important to train officers to make clear what is an optional request and what is a legal order. The blurring of that line leads to unnecessary escalation.

I find it very telling how you refer to people as "lawbreakers." As if there is a segment of our society that can be defined so simply. Almost all of us break some laws some of the time, and even a person who has an extensive criminal history isn't always breaking the law.

As a juvenile I broke the law quite a bit. I even put myself in situations where I could have potentially been legally killed. But my life and my existence, even at that time, couldn't so easily be defined using the term "lawbreaker." People, even those who have broken the law, are just more complex than that. Human life is more than that.

The fact that you see things in such binary terms makes me think reality is just too complicated for you to understand so you have to simplify it into some fantasy of cowboys and indians or cops and robbers.
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Oh, I almost forgot the biggest point I wanted to make based on your assumptions.

The protocol is supposed to help separate out the criminal that has no intention of cooperating. It is supposed to make the "lawbreaker" as obvious as possible so that when force is used there is little room to question the officer's actions because we will see (with body cameras and other video footage or witness accounts) that the officer followed the protocol but the suspect did not because the suspect was being uncooperative.

And as far as an innocent person being at risk... I mentioned ladder of force. You may not be familiar with the term. The concept is that when a person is being uncooperative you begin at the bottom of the ladder. Step one give a clear and direct order ("put your hands behind your head and kneel down"). If that doesn't work you begin to go up the ladder, pull a taser if practical and tell the person that they need to stop what they are doing and follow your orders or you will taser them. Of course there are times when the situation will require moving further up the ladder. That stuff is already part of police training.
 
Dr. Jones said:
Haha..

That's about like this;

Conservative: Well, I see people in this town are in need. Let's open businesses and create jobs for them and we all prosper together. Amen.

Liberal: Well, I see people in this town are in need and a golden opportunity to add more to government welfare.. buying future votes for the dems for decades using the tax dollars of those evil job creators.
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What happened to your skin being tough?

I'll admit my casual interpretation may have been tinted. As is yours. So let's reign it back in and get on the same page buddy.

A conservative will listen to X's story, imagine X in their shoes, assess and/or adjust accordingly.
A liberal will listen X's story, imagine themselves in X's shoes, assess and/or adjust accordingly.

Note how it's not about action taken, only what tools are used to assess and/or adjust. Both views have their place, but if we could all just do both we'd be way better off.

Feel better? Or do you need a table shower too?
 
Cunning Linguist said:
Have you been living under a ****ing rock the last three or so years or do you have a PhD in Ignorance?

[video=youtube_share;9LNO_y9Dge4]https://youtu.be/9LNO_y9Dge4?t=12

If you need more examples of how ******* cops have killed "non-violent" blacks in the last few years, let me know. I'm sure I myself or others can provide you with a few.
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Whats the difference between people like you generalizing all cops as one way, and people who generalize all blacks one way? There is none. You are both ignorant.

You do know that all cops arent acting like this right? You do know that even 20 videos showing this same thing would still only represent only tiny fraction of what occurs between the people and the police, right? Do you understand that watching police brutality videos is actually amplifying a samller problem into a giant not real crisis? Are you able comprehend when the media has an agenda and is trying to manipulate you? Every single time a black man is shot by police it makes national coverage. There is a whole lot more going on out there that doesnt make news to you. Just go look at the crime statistics and policing statistics. If the media could actually show what happened on a daily basis and you had time to look at it all, blacks dying at the hands of police would be the very least of things you would be concerned with. More white people die by cops each year than blacks. Yet you see nothing on it. Where is your outrage for that? If you actually paid attention to just how many murders are committed by people yearly in the united states, you would be calling for more police help. Each year its over 10,000 people murdered. Instead you are a manipulated dumbass. But ya, cops should just be out their being nice and asking pretty please. Because everybody is just so nice and the cops are just so evil. Grow a brain you clown. You think you could do a better job policing. Then go show us how its done. Im sure your temper you have displayed here many times will never become a factor when dealing with violent crazy people on a daily basis.
 
dalamon said:
You have to be joking. America ain't currently all prospering together, good sir. And it isn't due to a shortage of businesses. Look at gross economic growth over the last 8 years & compare to growth of living standards of the working class.
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Last 8 years you say?
 
What was Hack's previous username? I don't remember a regular user that is quite as stupid as this guy. He's like a poor man's Beanclown.
 
Gameface said:
Oh, I almost forgot the biggest point I wanted to make based on your assumptions.

The protocol is supposed to help separate out the criminal that has no intention of cooperating. It is supposed to make the "lawbreaker" as obvious as possible so that when force is used there is little room to question the officer's actions because we will see (with body cameras and other video footage or witness accounts) that the officer followed the protocol but the suspect did not because the suspect was being uncooperative.

And as far as an innocent person being at risk... I mentioned ladder of force. You may not be familiar with the term. The concept is that when a person is being uncooperative you begin at the bottom of the ladder. Step one give a clear and direct order ("put your hands behind your head and kneel down"). If that doesn't work you begin to go up the ladder, pull a taser if practical and tell the person that they need to stop what they are doing and follow your orders or you will taser them. Of course there are times when the situation will require moving further up the ladder. That stuff is already part of police training.
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Im not against trying to make the police better. Im all for ideas like that. Its this whole idea that police are this out of control violent racists people. Its complete BS. The actions of a few dumbasses dont represent the majority who do a great job handling very difficuly situations. 99.99% of time you dont see when it goes right and they handled it right. You dont see how often they are faced with unruley violent people and how that can effect their next encounter, and why they feel they need to be on edge. They are tired of the next person giving them the business, instead of helping to make their job easier. Thats why I think a lot of its on the person to go out of their way to show the cops they arent fighting. Its just comes off as very disrespectful and ungrateful to people who put their lives on the line on a daily basis to protect the fabric of society. They are the front line. Otherwise, none of the peace you and I know doesnt exist. I dont want to live in a place like the middle east where the governments have little control and there is too much violence and chaos.
 
dalamon said:
You have to be joking. America ain't currently all prospering together, good sir. And it isn't due to a shortage of businesses. Look at gross economic growth over the last 8 years & compare to growth of living standards of the working class.
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It's disturbing that no one gets why I said this.
I replied to something that was a grossly mischatacterized and overly generalized paradigm... with my own other-end-of-the-spectrum same.

It wasn't meant to be serious.

Y'all some numbheads.
 
ElRoach0 said:
What happened to your skin being tough?

I'll admit my casual interpretation may have been tinted. As is yours. So let's reign it back in and get on the same page buddy.

A conservative will listen to X's story, imagine X in their shoes, assess and/or adjust accordingly.
A liberal will listen X's story, imagine themselves in X's shoes, assess and/or adjust accordingly.

Note how it's not about action taken, only what tools are used to assess and/or adjust. Both views have their place, but if we could all just do both we'd be way better off.

Feel better? Or do you need a table shower too?
Click to expand...

That's basically what I said, only said it in an ever so slightly less sarcastic way.
 
Gameface said:
What was Hack's previous username? I don't remember a regular user that is quite as stupid as this guy. He's like a poor man's Beanclown.
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So you lose again? You cant prove Im wrong or come up with a good argument, so its back to the insults? Par for the course. Its just shows how weak you are.

Hi, Im gameface. Im angry, dont make me angry, dont argue with me. Im angry. Ill insult you, I swear I will. Im an angry little pathetic man.
 
Hack said:
So you lose again? You cant prove Im wrong or come up with a good argument, so its back to the insults? Par for the course. Its just shows how weak you are.

Hi, Im gameface. Im angry, dont make me angry, dont argue with me. Im angry. Ill insult you, I swear I will. Im an angry little pathetic man.
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Did you used to have a different username? Was it dwillpwnasaurusrex?

I've posted substance here that you haven't really responded to.

I'm not about winning arguments, I'm about trying to understand the other side of the argument. When I ask questions it is to that end. When I make points it is to give you the opportunity to address them. Maybe they were things you haven't considered, maybe they are things you have considered and you have a response.

I lose? Okay, that's fine with me. You are the awesome winner of the thread. Let me see if I can find the trophy and I'll get it to you ASAP.
 
Gameface said:
Did you used to have a different username? Was it dwillpwnasaurusrex?

I've posted substance here that you haven't really responded to.

I'm not about winning arguments, I'm about trying to understand the other side of the argument. When I ask questions it is to that end. When I make points it is to give you the opportunity to address them. Maybe they were things you haven't considered, maybe they are things you have considered and you have a response.

I lose? Okay, that's fine with me. You are the awesome winner of the thread. Let me see if I can find the trophy and I'll get it to you ASAP.
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Lmao.

You are about understanding the other side of the argument? Thats rich.
 
Hack said:
Lmao.

You are about understanding the other side of the argument? Thats rich.
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It's for my benefit, not yours. Understanding doesn't mean I'm going to agree. It doesn't mean I'm going to pat you on the back.
 
Hack, would I be correct if I were to say that you hold the police in high regard? That you value the service and the sacrifice they make to protect the innocent from violent criminals. That we as a society should support them, give them the benefit of the doubt and give them some slack because they are placed in dangerous situations countless times over the course of their careers. And while they probably handle hundreds of complex, difficult and dangerous situations very well, we are putting them in a position where if they are not absolutely perfect, where they might make one mistake we will crucify them for it. That the level of criticism they face and the negative view so many have of them makes all of us less safe. That it is unfair to paint everyone who wears the uniform with the same broad brush when so much of what they do is good and proper and for the benefit of the very people calling for their heads.

That if people who support BLM have their way we will hog tie police and put their lives in even greater danger. We will be letting the criminals win. We will demoralize the police and embolden those who wish to harm the police. Giving every thug an excuse to resist arrest and fight back when police are just doing the job we have put them out there to do.

Or have I lacked in trying to understand what you're saying, even though you did not say it well?
 
Dr. Jones said:
That's basically what I said, only said it in an ever so slightly less sarcastic way.
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No, you went further into choosing the action to back.

Speaking of your back, I believe that to be the only place to get a good size chunk of skin for my copy of the Convervanomicon to be printed in. So try not to get any(or more) tatoos. Pretty please.
 
ElRoach0 said:
No, you went further into choosing the action to back.

Speaking of your back, I believe that to be the only place to get a good size chunk of skin for my copy of the Convervanomicon to be printed in. So try not to get any(or more) tatoos. Pretty please.
Click to expand...

Just an "ElRoach0" tramp stamp thus far.
 
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