Pleiss Traded to Philly!!!

[stitches]

Here are my calculations:

After this deal (and assuming Marshall gets waived before his guarantee date) it would seem we are at 79M guaranteed. I assume Chris Johnson(1m unguaranteed) gets waived and Withey(1m unguaranteed) stays. So we are back at 80M. This gives us about 14M.

Favors' max is at about 21.5M for the first year. So we can give him extra 10.5, and about 3.5 are left for Hill. I'm not sure that would work, he's not signing long term contract for a 3.5M bump this year(I think he would need more). What exceptions do we have and can we use them for players already on contract? We have the room (MLE) exception at about 2.8M. Can it be used on Ingles+Bolomboy 's contracts? The amount is about the same as their salaries combined(2.75M>). I'm not CBA expert so if somebody knows, please elucidate us.

Either way - to me it seems like if they wanted to re-do Favors' contract they could have done it without giving up assets in order to dump Pleiss. This leads me to believe that they are trying to redo BOTH Favors and Hill.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/08/2...ers-two-second-rounders-to-take-tibor-pleiss/

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I lean towards the Jazz having another move in mind. Seems like a lot to give up just to free up 3,000,000 in space. Must be something going on.

To clear some space for the Favs or Hill extension... I know Hill's agent initially said no but it still might be there.

Also, 2nd rounders do have value, but when you have a million of them and can get more with small in season trades, Mack or Withey could be candidates, then it isn't that big of a deal to trade some of them. We don't have the roster spots for all of the picks coming in the next few years. I would have rather sent just one 2nd rounder, but if it's two and we have some other needs its fine. 2nd rounders are the grease to get deals done.

I'm actually more happy that we aren't making decisions based on sunk costs... one of the biggest issues in business and sports. We gave up value for Tibor, but if it isn't working admit it and move on. So many GMs compound problems by not allowing themselves to admit they were wrong.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The Jazz will get to waive two UNC PG's this off-season.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

To clear some space for the Favs or Hill extension... I know Hill's agent initially said no but it still might be there.

Also, 2nd rounders do have value, but when you have a million of them and can get more with small in season trades, Mack or Withey could be candidates, then it isn't that big of a deal to trade some of them. We don't have the roster spots for all of the picks coming in the next few years. I would have rather sent just one 2nd rounder, but if it's two and we have some other needs its fine. 2nd rounders are the grease to get deals done.

I'm actually more happy that we aren't making decisions based on sunk costs... one of the biggest issues in business and sports. We gave up value for Tibor, but if it isn't working admit it and move on. So many GMs compound problems by not allowing themselves to admit they were wrong.

It's definitely Favors. I don't think Utah really wants to extend Hill for w/e price they are probably asking for. They want to see how much Exum improves before committing too much money to a 2nd PG.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Here are my calculations:

After this deal (and assuming Marshall gets waived before his guarantee date) it would seem we are at 79M guaranteed. I assume Chris Johnson(1m unguaranteed) gets waived and Withey(1m unguaranteed) stays. So we are back at 80M. This gives us about 14M.

Favors' max is at about 21.5M for the first year. So we can give him extra 10.5, and about 3.5 are left for Hill. I'm not sure that would work, he's not signing long term contract for a 3.5M bump this year(I think he would need more). What exceptions do we have and can we use them for players already on contract? We have the room (MLE) exception at about 2.8M. Can it be used on Ingles+Bolomboy 's contracts? The amount is about the same as their salaries combined(2.75M>). I'm not CBA expert so if somebody knows, please elucidate us.

I don't think Hill is interested... Favors extension and we are done is my guess. We probably wanted to clear the salary to save some dough... which I'm fine with because we won't be at the absolute salary floor like we have been.

I'd love to know what cash went out... my guess is we netted some cash between the difference in Tibor's salary and the cash that went out.

 

[VINYLONE]

I suggest you feel luke-warm-neutral. This trade matters very little in the broad scheme of things, overreactions aside. If they do something constructive with the cap space that makes the team better, then I suggest you feel on the happy side of neutral.

Thanks! Much appreciated. I am now in neutral mode!

 

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It's definitely Favors. I don't think Utah really wants to extend Hill for w/e price they are probably asking for. They want to see how much Exum improves before committing too much money to a 2nd PG.

If it was only Favors, they could have done it without dumping Pleiss and giving up money and assets to do it. It doesn't make sense. I am guessing they are at least trying to get a deal done with Hill too..

 

[kabenac]

I remember a few years ago when Marshall said he wanted to play for us and was pissed we didn't sign him. Well, now he can be a Jazz player for a few minutes until we waive him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I suggest you feel luke-warm-neutral. This trade matters very little in the broad scheme of things, overreactions aside. If they do something constructive with the cap space that makes the team better, then I suggest you feel on the happy side of neutral.

I'm leaning towards 100% something is in the works. Aren't we still below the salary floor? If we are, we just paid money to get even more below the salary floor which would mean Miller would just have to pay even more money out in contract bonuses.

 

[infection]

Unless we already have a specific plan in mind with cap space, I'm having a hard time understanding it. From s purely financial standpoint it saves us $3.5M, minus how ever much cash we included in the deal. The fact that we got $3M for moving back 15 spots doesn't really lend credence to the notion of two second round picks being worthless. If this was a cost-saving move it was a poor one and awfully short-sided. Here's to hoping there's more.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's definitely Favors. I don't think Utah really wants to extend Hill for w/e price they are probably asking for. They want to see how much Exum improves before committing too much money to a 2nd PG.

I wouldn't mind doing it if Hill was cool taking the 3rd guard role (he'd be perfect for it). I would have thought he would be interested, but it sounded like his camp was decidedly a no. I actually liked the extension for him the most because we could give him a ton this year and have a deal at a much lower salary going forward. The difference on Favors will save us, but it won't be as good. I like either extension and both were much more important to our future than two second rounders and Tibor.

I think we could have done it without the Tibor deal, but if this is what DL had to do to get the Millers to sign off then I'm cool.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If it was only Favors, they could have done it without dumping Pleiss and giving up money and assets to do it. It doesn't make sense. I am guessing they are at least trying to get a deal done with Hill too..

But it is still real money... my guess is we needed to offload some salary to get the Millers on board.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I'm leaning towards 100% something is in the works. Aren't we still below the salary floor? If we are, we just paid money to get even more below the salary floor which would mean Miller would just have to pay even more money out in contract bonuses.

My guess is they already have a deal with Favs, but it can't be done for another month or two. I think we were close to the floor and this had to put us under it.

 

[Gameface]

Because they are being cheap. Thats the only reason.

That's what I don't get. They PAID MONEY to give him away. That doesn't sound cheap, especially not with picks on top.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just ran the math... we were basically right at the floor or just a hair under it. So yeah one of these extensions has likely been negotiated and we needed to save some dough.

The roster spot was also important here... I'm not convinced Bolomboy will be any good, but Tibor was not good and was not going to have any shot at playing this season. Joel has a multi year deal so if he is good then he's good for cheap and for longer.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That's what I don't get. They PAID MONEY to give him away. That doesn't sound cheap, especially not with picks on top.

If they paid $500k to offload his 3.5M salary they make money on the deal...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think the Miller's have been cheap the last few years. I don't think this was a cheap skate move if they extend Favors. We will be almost at the cap which is where it is fair to say we should operate. It's when we are at the salary floor with obvious holes to fill that I got irked.

 

[gomretat]

So, does anybody want to continue to say that the Kanter trade was even an average deal?

We're gonna end up with a couple 2nd rounders, with a slim chance at a first rounder. Awesome.

Anyone with any clue about how things work will continue to acknowledge that it was obviously the best we could get for Enes.

 

[stitches]

But it is still real money... my guess is we needed to offload some salary to get the Millers on board.

Well they just sold a trade back in the second for 3M. Those seconds are worth at least Pleiss' salary + we are giving them more money according to Woj.