Obama might be the best President in 100 years.
- Thread starter Gameface
- Start date
This guy is banned? WTF?
Based on the current crop of mod recruits I wouldn't be surprised seeing Dutch in that group.
carolinajazz
Well-Known Member
...well, there's your problem right there!
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Yeah, better to copy and regurgitate someone else's work than actually think for yourself.
Hedda Gambler
Well-Known Member
This notion of freedom that you Americans use always boggles me. I don`t intend to argue that your concept is wrong or that we do things better than you - it all depends on how you define freedom. Here in Norway, we pay 27% in taxes and 25% on everything we buy. Sure, this makes everything expensive, but with the average salary being around $50.000, we can afford it. We also have a social security system that gives you 2/3 of your previous salary if you lose your job or decide to quit (with 8 weeks penalty if you decide to quit yourself). You would probably call this Marxism and an insult to freedom. I would argue that this gives me as an individual much more freedom. If I am stuck in a job I don`t like, I can quit and use a 3-4 months trying to find a job that better suits my talents than the previous one. I also don`t have to worry about health insurance, as we have a single payer system.
Again, I`m not saying that our system is right and your`s is wrong or that our system fits your country. What I saying is that our political system gives me as an individual more freedom because I am not dependent on my employer in all the aspects of life that you are.
You make some really good points. In the U.S. most hourly workers are just shy of being wage slaves.
I've known several people who don't need their paycheck, they just need the affordable insurance that cannot be had without a employer provided group policy. A guy I work with has his own business and a few employees. He still works for someone else so that he can get the insurance.
I'm gonna guess anyone who disagrees with the fact that Obama has been an absolutely outstanding President (one I never voted for) are the same people that think Hillary is just about the worst person alive.
It helps me not take their arguments seriously since I know that the doom and gloom associated with Obama that never happened, quite the opposite happened, came from the same place that the doom and gloom about Hillary comes from.
If Hillary is 1/10th the President that Obama has been I'll be tickled pink, especially since it will mean that we dodge a demagogue retarded Hitler.
It helps me not take their arguments seriously since I know that the doom and gloom associated with Obama that never happened, quite the opposite happened, came from the same place that the doom and gloom about Hillary comes from.
If Hillary is 1/10th the President that Obama has been I'll be tickled pink, especially since it will mean that we dodge a demagogue retarded Hitler.
Obama's foreign policy in the Middle East has been an absolute failure, specially with his reversal of Bush's latest attempts at stabilizing the cluster**** he created, such as the troop surge in Iraq.
But from a domestic policy perspective, Obama has been very successful. I didn't vote for him (voted for Julia Stein, /facepalm), but I would if he was running again.
But from a domestic policy perspective, Obama has been very successful. I didn't vote for him (voted for Julia Stein, /facepalm), but I would if he was running again.
I agree. I have heard some stuff about how he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq. Really messed with something that was finally going right.
I would expand that to his foreign policy worldwide. With two notable exceptions Cuba and Japan/S. Korea forming stronger ties.
I don't agree with everything he says or does but domestically he has been good.
I greatly dislike ALL of Obama, Hillary, and Trump.
Some people somehow call that racist.
Some people call it misogyny.
Some people call it partisan.
Those people are either too lazy or too much a media-created robot, or both.
I kind of liked George Sr and kind of liked Bill Clinton. Both with major warts, but I liked them.
Same with Mitt.
I'm generally just disgusted with the choices, election after election, and it's so damn tiring having to defend that notion (that I'm not a racist, a chauvinist, or a pub pleb).
Some people somehow call that racist.
Some people call it misogyny.
Some people call it partisan.
Those people are either too lazy or too much a media-created robot, or both.
I kind of liked George Sr and kind of liked Bill Clinton. Both with major warts, but I liked them.
Same with Mitt.
I'm generally just disgusted with the choices, election after election, and it's so damn tiring having to defend that notion (that I'm not a racist, a chauvinist, or a pub pleb).
candrew
Well-Known Member
By doing what specifically? Not saying you're wrong - things have obviously gone from bad to worse. But I'd like to know what he did to make it worse.
Grossly over-simplified version.
Bush should not have invaded Iraq.
Obama should not have pulled out when he did.
Both were ill-conceived.
Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
One of the worst things about invading Iraq was that it created a situation where it would almost certainly be a permanent commitment. Unfortunately for him, there was never going to be a good time to leave. I supported Obama and still do, but I hated his claims that he would get our troops out immediately when he was running for his 1st term. That was never realistic, and it made him look kinda douchey when it didn't happen.
So yeah, he was ****ed either way, regardless. Either he completely went back on his word to get the troops out, or he gets them out and instability runs amok.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Obama was obligated by the Status of Troops Agreement to remove the US Armed Forces from Iraq in 2011. That agreement was put in place by GWB and the Iraqi Parliament.
He could have re-negotiated that deal - my understanding he proposed 10K troops and immunity from Iraqi law for American personnel and they balked on both. If that's the case what the hell was he supposed to do?
He could have re-negotiated that deal - my understanding he proposed 10K troops and immunity from Iraqi law for American personnel and they balked on both. If that's the case what the hell was he supposed to do?
It wasn't just pulling the troops. The surge was working and there were some good relationships and infrastructure going on and Obama pulled the rug out from under all that before the pull out. And it wasn't too facilitate the pull out our anything, it just wasn't his deal so he squashed it.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
You think he's been domestically successful? Is it the high joblessness that you like? The 1% growth rate of the economy? Race relations? Crime? The fact that Obamacare is working out the way its opponents said it would (decreasing options, increasing costs, etc)? Domestic terrorism? The deficit?
You're one of those people who mistake the president for God? The president has little/nothing to do with most of what you said, even the complete fabrications, like crime and domestic terrorism. He does have a bit to do with job creation, and he's done very well with that.
He was a centrist president. He pursued a globalist policy. He hired good Justices to the SCOTUS. He improved our relationship with Cuba. He pushed a progressive social agenda here and there. He did not push for excessive regulation like many progressives wanted.
He had his flaws (real things, not the **** you mentioned). For example the continuation/expansion of the previous administration's surveillance policy, the mass deportation of immigrants, and the aggressive prosecution of whistle blowers. But overall, he was fine. He was acceptable. We could do better, but we could also do a lot worse.