Never Trump

[♪alt13]

Which Trump policy are you referring to as a comparison to Hillary?

The actual policies that would happen under either presidency. Looking past the campaign rhetoric and trying to think about how each one would actually govern and what they could get done I honestly think that a Clinton presidency would be right of a Trump presidency. Despite the campaign rhetoric functionally Clinton would govern as more of a hard right "strongman" than Trump would.

Example: If you want to bring Democrats and Republicans together to support increased military spending and adventurism, well then vote Clinton.

 

[BYE]

The actual policies that would happen under either presidency. Looking past the campaign rhetoric and trying to think about how each one would actually govern and what they could get done I honestly think that a Clinton presidency would be right of a Trump presidency. Despite the campaign rhetoric functionally Clinton would govern as more of a hard right "strongman" than Trump would.

Example: If you want to bring Democrats and Republicans together to support increased military spending and adventurism, well then vote Clinton.

These kinds of statements are just so unbelievable to me. It's no wonder we've got such horrific voter turnout; everyone thinks that history will continue to roll on, and America will be the same as it always has. Look at the history of the great civilizations, and take a keen note on how they collapsed or went through complete turmoil. Clinton is more or less a representative president and is nothing too out of the ordinary, except for the first female president thing. Trump's presidency is at best an abject cluster**** (his nomination has already been a travesty and completely damaging to our country). At worst, his presidency would be the impetus for a world-wide descent into hell for decades to come. I just can't understand how people are contemplating voting for Trump as if the consequences for getting it wrong are like choosing a Snickers over a Twix. Trump's "policies" have been shown by most Republican sages of the past and by most intellectuals of our day to be about as salubrious as amputating a leg because of an ingrown toenail. If you think Trump is a rubber stamp Republican or that you have any idea what Trump will be like in office, you're kidding yourself and have missed that last fourteen years of Trump's "political" life.

 

[Hotdog]

Neither Trump or Hillary are qualified to be the president. This election just goes to show how screwed up our political process is. I dont think its going to matter who is elected either. Everything will stay about the same with either one in the office. Trump wont build a wall or deport anyone. Clinton wont take the guns away, the economy and spending will probabaly stay the same, etc.. The one thing I think they can effect is future elections. This election is like the rock bottom of retarded politics. People just thought Trump was going to be the change everyone wanted, but he turned out to be a dumbass and not the right guy. I think there a lot of smart people out there on the right and left that can see the flaws in their party's candidate. With the help of technology this stuff is going to change. Technology now is already effecting politics and how they work. Its just so young that its gonna take some time and learn from our mistakes. Trump's nomination represents the fact that more people are waking up to corrupt politics. Thats the one good thing that came from all this. We saw through Trump being nominated that we can choose to go in a different direction. We just need the right people to step up. We need someone who can bring the people back together amd really put an end to childish political games. A viable 3rd party just might emerge as a legit contender sooner than we think.

 

[Gameface]

I will never understand how anybody can look at Hillary's record and come to this conclusion. The only thing that people who think this way can hang their hat on is that she's avoided indictment, and it sure looks like that's purely the result of corruption. But you've probably imagined a perfectly good reason that Bill was on that plane, etc., etc., etc. I'm much more inclined to believe that the lies we know about are merely the tip of the iceberg.

I just pretend like she doesn't have a vagina. Then it's pretty obvious she's way way way better than Trump.

 

[Red]

These kinds of statements are just so unbelievable to me. It's no wonder we've got such horrific voter turnout; everyone thinks that history will continue to roll on, and America will be the same as it always has. Look at the history of the great civilizations, and take a keen note on how they collapsed or went through complete turmoil. Clinton is more or less a representative president and is nothing too out of the ordinary, except for the first female president thing. Trump's presidency is at best an abject cluster**** (his nomination has already been a travesty and completely damaging to our country). At worst, his presidency would be the impetus for a world-wide descent into hell for decades to come. I just can't understand how people are contemplating voting for Trump as if the consequences for getting it wrong are like choosing a Snickers over a Twix. Trump's "policies" have been shown by most Republican sages of the past and by most intellectuals of our day to be about as salubrious as amputating a leg because of an ingrown toenail. If you think Trump is a rubber stamp Republican or that you have any idea what Trump will be like in office, you're kidding yourself and have missed that last fourteen years of Trump's "political" life.

Yet, RNC Chairman Priebus willingly puts party above country. Probably an unfair way for me to put it; he is chairman and I'm sure he means well in his own mind, but really, threatening to punish ex candidates that do not support Trump? Kasich's office has since lambasted this RNC effort to intimidate GOP leaders.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-gop-candidates-who-won-t-back-trump-could-be-n650171

"t's not a threat, it's just the question that we have a process in place ... what should a private party do about that if those same people come around in four or eight years?"

Maybe people could thank them for having integrity at the time? Novel concept, Mr. Priebus.....

 

[str8line]

Neither Trump or Hillary are qualified to be the president. This election just goes to show how screwed up our political process is. I dont think its going to matter who is elected either. Everything will stay about the same with either one in the office. Trump wont build a wall or deport anyone. Clinton wont take the guns away, the economy and spending will probabaly stay the same, etc.. The one thing I think they can effect is future elections. This election is like the rock bottom of retarded politics. People just thought Trump was going to be the change everyone wanted, but he turned out to be a dumbass and not the right guy. I think there a lot of smart people out there on the right and left that can see the flaws in their party's candidate. With the help of technology this stuff is going to change. Technology now is already effecting politics and how they work. Its just so young that its gonna take some time and learn from our mistakes. Trump's nomination represents the fact that more people are waking up to corrupt politics. Thats the one good thing that came from all this. We saw through Trump being nominated that we can choose to go in a different direction. We just need the right people to step up. We need someone who can bring the people back together amd really put an end to childish political games. A viable 3rd party just might emerge as a legit contender sooner than we think.

There is nothing retarded about Hillary Clinton. Trump vs. Palin would fit your description.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I just pretend like she doesn't have a vagina. Then it's pretty obvious she's way way way better than Trump.

There have been plenty of great world leaders with a vagina. The presence or absence has nothing to do with one's ability to govern. But good luck making this choice about sexism.

IMO our political system combined with the modern 24/7 news cycle and social media is almost perfectly designed to weed out any decent person who might consider running for the highest office. We've built a gauntlet that heavily favors people willing to employ unlimited amounts of corruption and deceit.

 

[Jonah]

. . .Looking past the campaign rhetoric and trying to think about how each one would actually govern and what they could get done I honestly think that a Clinton presidency would be right of a Trump presidency. . .

Clinton is to the left of Trump on most domestic policy and social issues. A few quick examples: equal pay and abortion rights, pre-school education, student loans and tuition, minimum wage, immigration, civil rights, voting rights, climate change, and supreme court nominations.

. . .Despite the campaign rhetoric functionally Clinton would govern as more of a hard right "strongman" than Trump would.

Example: If you want to bring Democrats and Republicans together to support increased military spending and adventurism, well then vote Clinton.

I share your concerns about Clinton on foreign policy. She’s much more of an interventionist than my preference. It’s not by accident that a truckload of Bush era neocons have rallied behind her or that their infatuation extends back well before Trump became a candidate. Still, Clinton does push back against the neocons on torture, whereas Trump wants to bring it back as official US policy and escalate its use. Another factor against Trump is his aggressive authoritarian personality and the fact that he’s so vague, ignorant and malleable on foreign policy. He could well end up being even worse than Clinton. One of the upcoming debates will focus on foreign policy and hopefully Trump will be forced to be more specific so we can at least make a more informed comparison.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I laugh every time I read these threads.
Say one slightest thing negative about Hillary and you're a racist/misogynist.

... and irrational.

lol

Hey guys - you are an irrational racist and hate women unless you think Trump is Hitler.
Cmon.. Get rational! TIA

 

[Stoked]

Yeah this thread has been a beautiful disaster.

 

[BYE]

I laugh every time I read these threads.
Say one slightest thing negative about Hillary and you're a racist/misogynist.

... and irrational.

lol

Hey guys - you are an irrational racist and hate women unless you think Trump is Hitler.
Cmon.. Get rational! TIA

Sorry, Doctor Jones. This statement is as fallacious as your archaeological skills. Almost all of us (and particularly we independents) understand that Clinton has a penchant for keeping back facts when it actually hurts her more than it would otherwise. She was stupid with the private email server (highly influenced by Colin Powell). She's extremely ambitious and lacks the southern charm of her husband. Rather, she appears at her core to be a tough-*** intellectual who would have no problem beating you to a pulp.

Virtually no one claims that she is perfect, but lumping her in with Trump is one of the biggest travesties this country has seen in a long time. This act is why I call a spade a spade. If you do support Trump, you are supporting a racist (with white supremacist ties aplenty), a misogynist (this is not in question), and a general ignoramus on all counts except for maybe Machiavellianism. If you support a candidate who more or less openly espouses these things, then you are ok with these things. At least be man enough to own your decisions, and don't pull this neutral horse ****, with your Trump hat sig. YWIA.

 

[♪alt13]

These kinds of statements thinks that history will continue to roll on, and America will be the same as it always has.are just so unbelievable to me. It's no wonder we've got such horrific voter turnout; everyone Look at the history of the great civilizations, and take a keen note on how they collapsed or went through complete turmoil. Clinton is more or less a representative president and is nothing too out of the ordinary, except for the first female president thing. Trump's presidency is at best an abject cluster**** (his nomination has already been a travesty and completely damaging to our country). At worst, his presidency would be the impetus for a world-wide descent into hell for decades to come. I just can't understand how people are contemplating voting for Trump as if the consequences for getting it wrong are like choosing a Snickers over a Twix. Trump's "policies" have been shown by most Republican sages of the past and by most intellectuals of our day to be about as salubrious as amputating a leg because of an ingrown toenail. If you think Trump is a rubber stamp Republican or that you have any idea what Trump will be like in office, you're kidding yourself and have missed that last fourteen years of Trump's "political" life.

miss

I will not vote for Trump and have not thought about it once. Who becomes president is entirely out of my hands. In terms of picking the next president my vote is worthless. I'm 99% sure that Clinton will win.

Your statement about me "thinking that America will be the same as it always has" is an attempt to pigeon hole me. It's a poor attempt and it's off the mark.

The collapsing civilizations bit is hyperbolic.

Under Clinton's presidency everything that the government does that I oppose is going to get worse. The police state will expand and the belligerent empire will be more aggressive. The 2nd amendment gets all the press but the 4th, 5th, and 6th are at the greatest threat of erosion. It won't be long until they are as meaningless in practice as the 10th.

Yeah America is a good place to be but that good has very little to do with the presidency. The American people make the good stuff happen. The president is largely in charge of the nasty stuff and I see Clinton as a person that will be a very effective president.

 

[Gameface]

I laugh every time I read these threads.
Say one slightest thing negative about Hillary and you're a racist/misogynist.

... and irrational.

lol

Hey guys - you are an irrational racist and hate women unless you think Trump is Hitler.
Cmon.. Get rational! TIA

I've already said I will not be rational about this under any circumstances.

 

[♪alt13]

Clinton is to the left of Trump on most domestic policy and social issues. A few quick examples: equal pay and abortion rights, pre-school education, student loans and tuition, minimum wage, immigration, civil rights, voting rights, climate change, and supreme court nominations.

She didn't support gay marriage until 3 years ago when it became clear that the next democratic nominee must support it. Climate change, lol. Get ready to drill buddy. 4 more years of fracking guaranteed. Abortion is a non-issue, just a talking point. Minimum wage is evidence that the left is dead. Equal pay has been the law since 1963, again more talking points(though in practice it's kinda hard to prove and bringing a lawsuit is a scary step for the average person). Clinton will not be moving the needle to the left on domestic issues. Most lefties admit this they are just frightened of Trump. Really there is a whole lot of nothing here.

I share your concerns about Clinton on foreign policy. She’s much more of an interventionist than my preference. It’s not by accident that a truckload of Bush era neocons have rallied behind her or that their infatuation extends back well before Trump became a candidate. Still, Clinton does push back against the neocons on torture, whereas Trump wants to bring it back as official US policy and escalate its use. Another factor against Trump is his aggressive authoritarian personality and the fact that he’s so vague, ignorant and malleable on foreign policy. He could well end up being even worse than Clinton. One of the upcoming debates will focus on foreign policy and hopefully Trump will be forced to be more specific so we can at least make a more informed comparison.

I think that they both will torture people. The big difference is the left won't care when Hilary does it.

 

[BYE]

miss

I will not vote for Trump and have not thought about it once. Who becomes president is entirely out of my hands. In terms of picking the next president my vote is worthless. I'm 99% sure that Clinton will win.

Your statement about me "thinking that America will be the same as it always has" is an attempt to pigeon hole me. It's a poor attempt and it's off the mark.

The collapsing civilizations bit is hyperbolic.

Under Clinton's presidency everything that the government does that I oppose is going to get worse. The police state will expand and the belligerent empire will be more aggressive. The 2nd amendment gets all the press but the 4th, 5th, and 6th are at the greatest threat of erosion. It won't be long until they are as meaningless in practice as the 10th.

Yeah America is a good place to be but that good has very little to do with the presidency. The American people make the good stuff happen. The president is largely in charge of the nasty stuff and I see Clinton as a person that will be a very effective president.

I looked a bit closer at your original statement

The actual policies that would happen under either presidency. Looking past the campaign rhetoric and trying to think about how each one would actually govern and what they could get done I honestly think that a Clinton presidency would be right of a Trump presidency. Despite the campaign rhetoric functionally Clinton would govern as more of a hard right "strongman" than Trump would.

It had more nuance than I had remembered, particularly with respect to Trumps "right" ideals. However, you are a much better prognosticator than I am if you think you have any idea how horrible a Trump presidency would be. The collapsing "civilization bit" is hyperbole in as much as it hasn't happened. Very few people anticipate great turmoil in civilizations, and only after the fact is it clear and able to be totally evaluated from a historical perspective. Impetus is a real thing, and Trump has already set our trajectory in a very dangerous direction. Words and deeds matter and his "campaign rhetoric" is not the run-of-the-mill rhetoric. What you're suggesting is that we ignore what they have said and done on the campaign, as if this is simply a little dust under the real deal hiding underneath. At this point, it becomes extremely easy to simply vote with the party, because the candidates simply become surrogates for their parties. I'm sorry you can't find anything in common with Clinton, but I'm not ready to let what Trump has said and done achieve the status of sprinkles on the cupcake.

 

[Hotdog]

I laugh every time I read these threads.
Say one slightest thing negative about Hillary and you're a racist/misogynist.

... and irrational.

lol

Hey guys - you are an irrational racist and hate women unless you think Trump is Hitler.
Cmon.. Get rational! TIA

Thats not just this thread or about Hillary. The left responds that way about anything you disagree with them on.

You can expect the left to throw a card down everytime on every topic.

Example : Illegal Immigration is hurting wages.....RACIST!! The card is pulled before the words even get all the way out your mouth. Its like talking to a 5 year old.

 

[BYE]

I think that they both will torture people. The big difference is the left won't care when Hilary does it.

One of your worst statements so far. This shows your red underwear and is founded on your assumption that Clinton will be a bigger hawk than Trump. She has never said anything about torturing people or killing the families of terrorists. Stop putting words in her mouth and creating a figure that is equal to Trump. You're so sure you understand the hidden intents of these candidates, and this astounds me.

 

[colton]

Yet, RNC Chairman Priebus willingly puts party above country. Probably an unfair way for me to put it; he is chairman and I'm sure he means well in his own mind, but really, threatening to punish ex candidates that do not support Trump? Kasich's office has since lambasted this RNC effort to intimidate GOP leaders.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-gop-candidates-who-won-t-back-trump-could-be-n650171

"t's not a threat, it's just the question that we have a process in place ... what should a private party do about that if those same people come around in four or eight years?"

Maybe people could thank them for having integrity at the time? Novel concept, Mr. Priebus.....

On the plus side, I'm liking Kasich more and more. And I voted for him in Utah.

 

[Stoked]

On the plus side, I'm liking Kasich more and more. And I voted for him in Utah.

Recently read a report that the RNC is considering barring from running again those that do not back the current nominee. Specifically Cruz and Kasich.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

I cannot at all imagine that people hear what he says and think that they could possibly vote for him.

I think it's pretty simple. They just wait a few weeks until his advisors finally convince him to reverse or soften what he originally said, and then they pretend he never really meant what he said and was just joking around. Or something.