Extreme vegan facing charges for child abuse
- Thread starter MVP
- Start date
They are ridiculous.
MVP
Well-Known Member
That is kind of oxymoron. bacteria are vegan? While they are not animals they are not plants either. In general all this vegan ethical thing is stupid in my point of view... you patting yourself on the back for not eating animals because you are pro life, but yet you eat and consume plants who are a living beings as well. Whats the difference?
Sentience is my guess. I'm not a vegan though so I'm not sure all their reasons. Most I know are mostly opposed to factory farming that is cruel to animals and terrible for the environment. Oh and bacteria is not sentient and does not have a nervous system so it's not really an oxymoron to eat bacteria but not animals.
ConradA24
Well-Known Member
I know it's not fair to make a comment like that ^^ and not back it up, but I don't have the energy. (Or time) My whole life has been defending the food Industry (Ag, livestock, dairy), but I also can't let comments like that go. Just because the state of CA is dumb and irresponsible doesn't mean people shouldn't research it themselves. (And that means looking at the other side)
Do cows use resources and produce methane. Yes. But then it's turned around and benefits the planet, etc...
Kind of like complaining that trees use too much water and resources but not taking about the benefits they offer.
Do cows use resources and produce methane. Yes. But then it's turned around and benefits the planet, etc...
Kind of like complaining that trees use too much water and resources but not taking about the benefits they offer.
I'd be happy to read some studies that show its positive impact it you have any. Most the recent ones i have been seeing are pretty damning of factory farming and it's environmental impact that I have read including the ones cited in the articles linked. But I have never cared that much about it, just what I have seen.
MVP
Well-Known Member
It's known for some time some plants possess sentience as well.
https://goodnature.nathab.com/research-shows-plants-are-sentient-will-we-act-accordingly/
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ligent-sentient-book-brilliant-green-internet
It is debated but science has not proven that plants have sentience. I think you are just googling articles that fit what you think and don't actually think that plants and animals are on the same level. Reacting to the environment is not the same to me as having a brain and a nervous system. If you however feel plants are sentient and on the same level as animals, I respect that. If you feel plants are being abused and their lives are suffering because of preventable actions, I hope you stick up for them. I don't think that about plants, I do think animals are being abused in many different ways and deserve better. I don't think the solution is everyone necessarily being vegan. But I think your just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Misuse of the word sentient. Not every intelligent system is sentient. In that case, computers are sentient. I feel terrible for killing my old graphics card now.
MVP
Well-Known Member
I agree that some animal abuse is for sure happening and it needs to be corrected. But I also believe that animals are extremely valuable resource and have a very important purpose in our life - so it is up to us how to use it as humanely as possible.
I just want to ask all vegans, what would be their solution if all humanity would go vegan overnight. Do they understand how unrealistic it would be? Let all cattle, horses, pigs and poultry lose to live free and see how that would impact our environment. Lets see if 8 billions of people would have enough soil, water and resources to grow and raise all those plants needed to feed them.
Not a bad reply, but I doubt the last statement is true. Knowing how much pollution Chinese and Russian chemical plants produce I doubt that beef production can match that. Heck we have plastic soup in Pacific size of Texas floating around
Shhhhh, let him have his paranoia over global warming.
We're already doing a lot to counter these problems. Read up a bit on the poultry watershed problems in Arkansas for example.
No it won't. All that would do is put the smaller farms out of business and leave us with the large factory farms that are the problem. Free range, in theory anyway, disperses their excrement and doesn't create water quality issues.
One of the links in that article you posted (not the original source like most links I read from there) claimed that controlling ammonia would cost about "$8,000 per ton in the winter". That figure is approaching acceptable control technology standard costs.
The USEPA has been making progress in air quality issues. In 2002, they withdrew California's explicit exemption on factory farming. In 2001 they settled an agreement with Premium Standard Farms in Missouri, which forced them to install air pollution control tech, fund a $300,000 environmental project, and spend up to $25,000,000 funding pollution control technology research.
What we all need to realize is this will raise the price of protein and possibly make free range and small farms more competitive. The problem with the latter is it is much more impractical to control emissions from small businesses as it becomes extremely cost prohibitive.
Improvements are happening that are great. They are also necessary because of the growth of that industry. That doesn't mean more doesn't need to be done or that it isn't a problem. I also assume when people cut back on eating animals they would also be more conscience of their source for the meat they buy and get them from sustainable better places.
Last edited:
But you also have to become some kind of nutrition scientist to make sure you're getting everything you need. Our bodies just didn't evolve for it. Vegetarianism is a much more reasonable approach than veganism.
B12 and iron are the only thing vegans struggle with. It's not that difficult. Most vegans are more healthy. I don't necessarily think the answer is vegetarianism or veganism personally. Our bodies haven't evolved to eat what we are eating period, they also haven't evolved for how long we are living. Most people are not properly eating unless they understand nutrition and are paying attention to their diet. So I'm not sure what the difference would be. Vegans generally understand nutrition better then the average person and eat more healthy. Lots of our food needs to be fortified.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using JazzFanz mobile app
MVP
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree.