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♪alt13 said:
It's fair to say that Christian leaders had been calling for and committing similar heinous acts against Jews for centuries in Europe. It's fair to say that they created and perpetrated the antisemitism that culminated in the Holocaust.


Edit: *perpetuated
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Again, it goes back to whether those that call themselves Christian's really are, but I do agree that far too many Christians committed actions against Jews, and other ethnicities. I think saying that Christian's committed the Holocaust is a pretty big stretch.
 
JustTheTip said:
Again, it goes back to whether those that call themselves Christian's really are, but I do agree that far too many Christians committed actions against Jews, and other ethnicities. I think saying that Christian's committed the Holocaust is a pretty big stretch.
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Germany is part of the Christian world, especially leading up to and during WWII. I'm quite sure the vast majority of Germans identified as Christians. You want to tell them they were not Christian, ok, but they were. And they went along with the Holocaust.
 
JustTheTip said:
Again, it goes back to whether those that call themselves Christian's really are, but I do agree that far too many Christians committed actions against Jews, and other ethnicities. I think saying that Christian's committed the Holocaust is a pretty big stretch.
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You're a Christian if you call yourself Christian. There is no "real" Christian, just like there is no "real" Muslim. Self-declaration is the criterion for admittance into the club.
 
JustTheTip said:
Saying "you're a Christian if you say you are" goes against what the holy book of that religion says, but whatevs. It probably doesn't matter in relation to the argument.
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Your interpretation of The Bible that is. There are theologians who don't even think you need to believe in Christ's godhood to be a Christian. And I'm pretty sure they read the Bible too.
 
Siro said:
You're a Christian if you call yourself Christian. There is no "real" Christian, just like there is no "real" Muslim. Self-declaration is the criterion for admittance into the club.
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JustTheTip said:
Saying "you're a Christian if you say you are" goes against what the holy book of that religion says, but whatevs. It probably doesn't matter in relation to the argument.
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What that book "says" has been debated endlessly. Each group has different views on what that is. That won't change.

Just look at all the different Christian sects today. Not all of them agree that all the others are "Christian". But that doesn't stop them from being "Christian" as they see it.

None have them control who is or isn't.
 
Siro said:
Your interpretation of The Bible that is. There are theologians who don't even think you need to believe in Christ's godhood to be a Christian. And I'm pretty sure they read the Bible too.
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In that case, I'm a member of the Utah Jazz. At least that's how I'm interpreting this paper I have from them. It only matters what I think after all.

Pointless discussion anyways, not sure why I even bothered.
 
dalamon said:
Mormon as recognized by that church. But some fLDS ppl consider themselves Mormon even tho the church proper may not classify them as "Mormon".
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I meant that if you are a Mormon and consider yourself Christian, nobody else considers you a Christian.
 
JimLes said:
Evangelicals. Aside from their general wacko craziness, they also seem to think that the word Christian means only born-again, speaking-in-tongues, faith-healing, megachurch-attending, f*g-hating people like themselves. So you hear gems like "Oh, he's not Christian, he's Catholic."
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Most people are not seriously informed enough to do critical thinking even about broad cultural definitions, which would seem to dictate a significant consensus as to who is "religious" or "Christian" or "moslem". It has long been my observation that the minor distinctions often loom larger because of their usefulness in quickly differentiating between local groups.

There is, in this sense, a lot of concise utility in saying one person is not a "Christian", like others in the little church in the wildwood, but a Catholic, who attends the big city church. Usually, I would assume that most people understand Catholics believe in Jesus, as they understand the evangelicals believe in Jesus on their own definitions.
 
Scat said:
I meant that if you are a Mormon and consider yourself Christian, nobody else considers you a Christian.
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So who is qualified, really, to define "Christian"????

The only absolutely qualified definer is Christ. The rest of us have to refer to some standard of judgment of our own invention.
 
I like Kierkegaard’s idea of Christianity. People who consider themselves Christians, as a matter of course and without reflection, are deceiving themselves. Other than Christ, no one is really Christian. That it's more useful to talk in terms of those interested in becoming Christian and for them it is a journey without end, at least in this life.
 
Jonah said:
I like Kierkegaard’s idea of Christianity. People who consider themselves Christians, as a matter of course and without reflection, are deceiving themselves. Other than Christ, no one is really Christian. That it's more useful to talk in terms of those interested in becoming Christian and for them it is a journey without end, at least in this life.
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Yet Christ doesn't actually exist and Christians do. So it's a bit of a paradox.
 
Clinton supports a no fly zone in parts of Syria. That is an extremely dangerous game at this point. It's gotten past that point unless you're looking for armed conflict with Russia or public humiliation.

I find the foreign policy part very entertaining.
 
I found the focus group after the debate very interesting. It ended with a solid group "no" to if they are satisfied with the candidate s and two straight individual expressions of dislike for the choices.

Came off very strong.
 
I watched the entire thing.

Trump was a chump, with a goofy smile. While Hillary was calling him "dangerous", there was very little that seemed overboard. Did anyone put a clock on Hillary? She knew she could talk all she wanted.

At the end, the bit about "will you accept the results" was made out by the TV talking morans like he was saying he had his army outfitted to just take over if the election didn't run his way. Pretty stupid comments about how in history America's first election was the first peaceful transfer of power in history, by Cokie Roberts the self-styled historian who hasn't heard of Greece or Rome. Or a lot of American Indian tribes for that matter.

Most Trump leaners will walk away from this with absolute disgust for the moderator who like others before him joined in on Hillary's side, using prejudicial phrasing to load questions for Trump and debating against him without pretense of objectivity. He cut Trump out of his two minutes on every question, and let Hillary run three or four. And Hillary knew it was coming her way, and had her lines memorized.

People who watch TV and believe it are pretty much beyond reach anyway.

Trump said "we'll see" like anyone should. If there is any outright fraud, he will prosecute his case in Hillary's courts, just to show the American people he still cares about America. I think he is in this for the long run, even if he loses this election, he will do what he can towards resolution of criminal or scofflaw administrators and officials who are doing stuff a lot of Americans feel should no longer be tolerated without remonstrance. And kiddies, that big word means a civil objection made publicly, not a civil war.

People who make Trump out to be a tyrant just don't know that he cares about the good things America has been for so many hard working and honorable people who found their chance in America when they could not have had that chance anywhere else.

And what was wrong with all those nations and times past which led so many people to come to America? Governance by people like Hillary.
 
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