RealGM: Jazz Prioritizing Extension For George Hill Over Derrick Favors

[Handlogten's Heros]

We can make room just fine if Favors is healthy and playing.

This team has also gone over the cap if we are competitive which we can do to resign our own guys.

The mechanics of favors extension would have made it impossible to retain Hill. Say we retain Hill and Favors gets right and starts killing it again. We can then move Hill and Dante is now hopefully ready.

If favs doesn't get right this year or next he won't get the 20 M or so we think he will.

What if we traded favors at draft time or the off season? We wouldn't be getting nothing for him.

I just think it is funny how some folks don't see this and run back the same dumbass arguments they did before.

Also we got Rodney hood and a 2017 first for letting millsap walk and using that space to take on dead money. No one was going to give up much for half a season of Paul at the trade deadline.

If we extend one person it should be Hill. And it isn't choosing between them.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I'm really not sold on lyles as our PF of the future you guys. I honestly think we're better off with Exum at the 1 long-term than we are with lyles at the 4.

Like when I'm looking at our loss last night, we 100% missed Favors more than Hill

 

[Deleted member 848]

The mechanics of favors extension would have made it impossible to retain Hill. Say we retain Hill and Favors gets right and starts killing it again. We can then move Hill and Dante is now hopefully ready.

If favs doesn't get right this year or next he won't get the 20 M or so we think he will.

What if we traded favors at draft time or the off season? We wouldn't be getting nothing for him.

I just think it is funny how some folks don't see this and run back the same dumbass arguments they did before.

Also we got Rodney hood and a 2017 first for letting millsap walk and using that space to take on dead money. No one was going to give up much for half a season of Paul at the trade deadline.

If we extend one person it should be Hill. And it isn't choosing between them.

I guess contractually it may make sense. With Exum still being raw and Burks being MIA it does make sense to try and keep both-- but gun to my head (and with knowledge of Favors being able to be healthy in the long term) i'm choosing to stick with derrick over George. That's kinda all I'm saying. Good points HH

 

[MDAV28]

I guess contractually it may make sense. With Exum still being raw and Burks being MIA it does make sense to try and keep both-- but gun to my head (and with knowledge of Favors being able to be healthy in the long term) i'm choosing to stick with derrick over George. That's kinda all I'm saying. Good points HH

What about gun to you head in the situation we are in (with Favors injury problems)?

 

[Jazz4ever]

Hill is a UFA next season. Favors is not.

Hill is a priority not because Favors is dealing with Injuries but because Hills contract is over after this season. Favors we can deal with later, he is under contract this season and next. We can easily clear salary for players if we need to. We can trade Joe Johnson next season. We can trade Burks next season. Ingles, Withey and Macks contracts all come off next season. Next season we will know if Favors injuries have cleared up or are an issue still and we will know if Burks is alive.

Good post. A lot can happen between now and when Favors hits the open market.

 

[stitches]

With Favors the Jazz really have 3 options and nothing else:
1. Renegotiate and extend NOW - this is the only time we can do it, because we will not have the capspace to do it past this year.
2. Let him go to FA in 2018 and try to resign him then.
3. Trade him before 2018.

Things that Jazz get by R&E Favors:
1. Tie up one of the best two-way bigs in the game going into his prime to a contract that will likely look GREAT in the last 2 years of the contract.
2. Lose George Hill in the Summer(because we might need to go into luxury tax to resign him)

Things Jazz get by R&E Hill:
1. Tie up one of the better two-way PGs in the game for a team that has struggled with lack of PGs, how good that contract will be at the end of the contract is debatable.
2. Keep the whole team(!!!) for 2 years(until 2018). This is an option that's not available if we choose Favors R&E.

In essence, the Jazz might be choosing between signing the better player long-term, versus keeping ALL players for 2 years and pushing back the deadline on a decision until (2017 or 2018).

I honestly don't know which one I prefer. Before I thought signing Favors is a no brainer, but the more I think about it the more I see the value in keeping the whole team intact by keeping the player that can leave in the summer.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Hood and Exum need to be extended that same summer, they'll already be at the cap after this summer.. somethings gotta give, and trading him for an expiring and a draft pick could work but it's still not a good return on a player that just turned 27 and is arguably a top-10 pf..

When healthy. If Favs didn't have chronic injuries, there's no question he'd be offered an extension.

As for your point about draft picks, yeah, ain't it great to cherry pick guys GM's overlooked. I'm sure 29 other GM's look at Gobert and Hood and wish they had drafted differently.

I'd love for you to bump YOUR draft projections over the past 4-5 years. Let's see how many YOU got right. And not just your scattershot talk about 20 different players each draft thread. Your specific picks.

The draft is just one method of building a team. You also have free agency and trades. Cleveland, the Warriors and the Spurs have used all 3 to build championship teams. They've also trade away young players for vets, and each have missed on draft picks along the way.

DL blew the pick on Burke. Was it his pick or did KOC, Corbin and others control that draft? Don't know. But you have to acknowledge that this year...FINALLY...he built a team with solid starters and a good bench. And then injuries hit. Now he'll have to decide if Favs and Burks are worth hoping that they'll recover. And he'll need to determine if Gordon is a top-tier player worth $30M.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

With Favors the Jazz really have 3 options and nothing else:
1. Renegotiate and extend NOW - this is the only time we can do it, because we will not have the capspace to do it past this year.
2. Let him go to FA in 2018 and try to resign him then.
3. Trade him before 2018.

Things that Jazz get by R&E Favors:
1. Tie up one of the best two-way bigs in the game going into his prime to a contract that will likely look GREAT in the last 2 years of the contract.
2. Lose George Hill in the Summer(because we might need to go into luxury tax to resign him)

Things Jazz get by R&E Hill:
1. Tie up one of the better two-way PGs in the game for a team that has struggled with lack of PGs, how good that contract will be at the end of the contract is debatable.
2. Keep the whole team(!!!) for 2 years(until 2018). This is an option that's not available if we choose Favors R&E.

In essence, the Jazz might be choosing between signing the better player long-term, versus keeping ALL players for 2 years and pushing back the deadline on a decision until (2017 or 2018).

I honestly don't know which one I prefer. Before I thought signing Favors is a no brainer, but the more I think about it the more I see the value in keeping the whole team intact by keeping the player that can leave in the summer.

We have other options... players can trade some pieces and move money around. We also don't know what his value is 1.5 years from now... ATM it is certainly declining. A Hillextension now preserves the most assets and provides the most options. If we need to make be him next year to keep Favs we will be able to. If Exum and Hood are worth mega money then our team will be awesome and I could see us doing the high payroll for a year or so.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...s-an-extension-Need-capologists-in-here/page2

The problem is that if we extend Hill now, we will have no way to extend Favors until his deal runs out. By extending Hill now, we would use most of our cap space in doing so, leaving nothing, or very little for Favors. Next summer, Gobert`s new deal and Hayward`s massive cap hold kicks in. If Hayward leaves, then sure, but if not, we can`t extend Favors as we would be way over the cap. Under the current CBA, it would make more sense to extend Favors now and wait until the summer to do Hill by using his Bird rights. But, we don`t know what is in the new CBA, which may hold provisions that could change all of this.

I don't agree with this. I think you're taking a much bigger risk by letting Hill go to FA. He's finally in the perfect position, and I expect him to have a monster year with Utah. On the other hand, Favors is under contract for another year, and is also somewhat of a question mark health wise. I really hate not giving him his money, after getting him for a bargain on his last contract, but I think the best move for Utah if they have to choose, is to extend Hill and gamble on being able to re-sign Favors when his contract runs out, using his bird rights.

I will admit though, that this situation is pretty complicated. It will be interesting to see what happens.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php?55472-Shall-we-extend-Favors-now

Curry

Also, GS invested in Andrew Bogut, which was important to them in winning a title. Depends on the situation, but Favors is worth investing in. If you can extend him at a discount, you take that gamble. However, I'd put extending Hill as a priority.

Cappy been callin' this for a while now. Just sayin'.

 

[kabenac]

Makes sense to me. We've got Lyles (who we can match when his contract is up) and Bolomboy shows promise as a backup. I like Favors - he seems like a very nice guy and he can play but his body is falling apart and he's still young - and the Jazz haven't had a star-caliber PG since D-Will and Hill fits into our system (and Hill seems to be a coach's/GMs dream while D-Will caused internal issues).

 

[Miggs]

I'm really not sold on lyles as our PF of the future you guys. I honestly think we're better off with Exum at the 1 long-term than we are with lyles at the 4.

Like when I'm looking at our loss last night, we 100% missed Favors more than Hill

I completely agree. Lyles is a sieve on d.

 

[Miggs]

pgab going full dumb here.

 

[Game6Conley]

Yes. What did you want them to do? Jump into a time machine, evaluate the players, then return and use hindsight to make the decision?

Regarding the moves you mentioned, the Burke pick was sketchy because it wasn't clear he could physically do it in the NBA. The other two? Who cares? Both players mostly suck anyway.

I simply wanted them to find and take the BPA.. The same goal as most scouting depts..I was talking about our judgement as outsiders on the performance of the FO, not the FO utilizing the power of hindsight..

the Burke pick was scetchy for a lot more reasons than that. for one, there was a much better PG prospect on the board.....

Selling picks with players like Jordan Clarkson still on the board is poor practice, it's turning a blind eye to low-hanging fruit. To try and downplay his talents at this point is laughable, he's proven.

 

[Game6Conley]

pgab going full dumb here.

I was a knicks fan, I've seen 30 year old trade targets get big extensions and **** a whole team and salary cap royally many times over..

I wanted Tobias Harris and Harrison Barnes both of whom can play 4 in the past 2 offseasons, either would've provided futher insurance for this entire issue.


It's just a matter of perspective. Some people see things as incremental upgrades and other see them as errors compounding themselves over and over.. if the cost is Favors the asking price is way too high.

 

[silesian]

They sold the 35th pick in the 2014 draft when Jordan Clarkson was still on the board. In 2013 they knew Schroder would've fallen in their laps but reached for Burke anyways. In 2015 they took Olivier Hanlan 4picks before Norman Powell who's a SG but still could've easily provided nice backcourt depth, he's tough, long, explosive and plays defense.


Without errors like those, trading a lottery pick for George Hill would have much less appeal..


So now we're gonna downgrade the PF position to further try and resolve the issue that should've been solved long ago at PG.. with a fat contract for a 31 year old no less...

Doesn't sound like snowballing assets to me.. Seems like the opposite.. Like panicked moves from a FO trying to save face..

Here is an equally practical idea: build a time machine.

 

[Nate505]

I simply wanted them to find and take the BPA.. The same goal as most scouting depts..I was talking about our judgement as outsiders on the performance of the FO, not the FO utilizing the power of hindsight..

the Burke pick was scetchy for a lot more reasons than that. for one, there was a much better PG prospect on the board.....

Selling picks with players like Jordan Clarkson still on the board is poor practice, it's turning a blind eye to low-hanging fruit. To try and downplay his talents at this point is laughable, he's proven.

If Clarkson was such low hanging fruit, why was he the 46th player chosen in the draft?

 

[Qman]

If Clarkson was such low hanging fruit, why was he the 46th player chosen in the draft?

Because most people saw him as an undersized slashing SG who couldn't shoot. He just really improved his overall offensive game. For example DX has him 31st in their mock draft. And he still isn't a point guard. He is however a good player.

 

[Diamond77]

If I could choose, I would extend both Hill and Favors and I would trade Hayward.

 

[gomretat]

Boo... So they're gonna let Millsap and Favors walk without getting jack **** in return? Sounds wasteful to me.

How could you not conclude they've squandered the return from the Deron trade?

Why would any GM make a go forward decision with looking backward logic?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

George Hill confirmed out tomorrow vs Rockets.