Building around Williams was a mistake, time to move on
- Thread starter Lord of Turnovers
- Start date
Chauncey... seriously... I realized that you said he wasn't a max player, and this is me telling you that you're wrong. Exchange any other PG in the league at that point. Only ones that come away with a ring would be Nash, Billups, Kidd. The reason they had 4 guys who could score, was because they had one guy who could run an offense (and he shot pretty good as well)
You're getting too caught up in the position. If a point guard is the guy who brings the ball up the court, then Dwayne Wade and Scottie Pippen were the point guards. 7 championships between them.
If its the guy that calls/makes the plays...Kobe with 5 rings on his fingers is your point guard
If its the guy that most effectively distributes the ball throughout the entire team... hell I guess Tim Duncan was the Spur's point guard.
I'm not going to lie that size matters, because it does. However just because something hasn't been done doesn't mean it can't be done. Stock would have 2 rings if MJ wasn't there... its about context... and right now the point guards are more skilled and athletic then ever before... so they will become increasingly important. The prime for the first of the new breed of point guard is barely upon us with Dwill and CP3 only 2-3 years in. They'll get theirs... but I'm telling you now your elite wing needs the exact same players to win a championship as the elite point guard does... or Kevin Durant would be able to make it out of the first round of the playoffs.
JAZZFAN_2814
Active Member
The argument against elite PFs/PGs as contending leaders/lynchpins is busted by the outlier of the Jordan era. Put those players in this era, and the result is very different. Frontcourts, especially, are weakened, even while a team like the Lakers depends on its "dominant" frontcourt to win titles.
Could the Jazz contend with Deron? Really contend? Yes. But they won't.
From a priori to a posteriori, this organization has not, is not and will not make the necessary moves to contend. And if they make a move, as seen, it will often just as likely be the wrong move.
Would someone like to defend keeping Okur and Kirilenko in place of Boozer? Because, as events move forward, it's likely that, domino-like, that indeed means "moving on" without Deron.
Casually and causally this team is being run...the question is to where, and for what purpose? Because, um, the Jazz are spending more are on two worthless (at best) side-pieces than they would have had to spend on Boozer. Not smart, but typical for this organization of low-level sheisters.
Oh, but Millsap's lack of skillsets out of the high or low posts won't matter next to his misleading statline; the continued argument out of the FO on this level shows either a belief that their fanbase is full of morons (rather than...?) or, even worse, no ability or interest in calculating the difference between an individuated statline and real facilitation skills that Sloan's offense needs.
Oh well. That is the fallback plan: let Sloan squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as is possible in any haptic sense. It's almost metaphysics, witnessing Sloan in full 'Bad News Bears'/'Hoosiers' mode; too bad that the amazement is relative, as the ceiling will likely be mediocrity.
Frankly, if there's been a mistake made, it appears it was giving the Miller family an NBA team. Longform, they're still learning that they can't get 55 wins a season out of ten-man local Y rosters now that Stockton and Malone are retired.
What tragedy.
Could the Jazz contend with Deron? Really contend? Yes. But they won't.
From a priori to a posteriori, this organization has not, is not and will not make the necessary moves to contend. And if they make a move, as seen, it will often just as likely be the wrong move.
Would someone like to defend keeping Okur and Kirilenko in place of Boozer? Because, as events move forward, it's likely that, domino-like, that indeed means "moving on" without Deron.
Casually and causally this team is being run...the question is to where, and for what purpose? Because, um, the Jazz are spending more are on two worthless (at best) side-pieces than they would have had to spend on Boozer. Not smart, but typical for this organization of low-level sheisters.
Oh, but Millsap's lack of skillsets out of the high or low posts won't matter next to his misleading statline; the continued argument out of the FO on this level shows either a belief that their fanbase is full of morons (rather than...?) or, even worse, no ability or interest in calculating the difference between an individuated statline and real facilitation skills that Sloan's offense needs.
Oh well. That is the fallback plan: let Sloan squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as is possible in any haptic sense. It's almost metaphysics, witnessing Sloan in full 'Bad News Bears'/'Hoosiers' mode; too bad that the amazement is relative, as the ceiling will likely be mediocrity.
Frankly, if there's been a mistake made, it appears it was giving the Miller family an NBA team. Longform, they're still learning that they can't get 55 wins a season out of ten-man local Y rosters now that Stockton and Malone are retired.
What tragedy.
Sloanfeld
Banned
Some of you thought this guy was crazy, but after KOC made the move you were all over his nuts. So, why don't you all tell this guy how right he was?
Especially you, you sack of ****.
Well in the year Spurs got their last ring, Suns was the best team and they could win the championship if amare wasnt banned in the series with spurs. With stockton and malone, we almost won the ring.
So statistics doesnt always say the truth. If u wanna get a championship without a great pg, u should better have guys like KObe, Wade, Shaq,Duncan ... which appearantly we dont have. So for a team like utah, the best option would be a great pg, who can lift the performance of others. Utah shouldnt build the team around 1 or 2 guy, but they should build an equal team like Detroit did, Billups,Hamilton,Prince,Wallace, Ben W.
Noone was such a superstar but all the team was allstar. I think the strategy we should follow should be like this. And even with no addition to the current squad, but just a great pg like Kyle Irving, would make this team a contender already.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
The originial plan was never to build around a point guard. It was to have a versatile, talented and strong front-line (Kirilenko, Boozer, Okur) with a solid point guard who could orchestrate the offense. In 2006-07, Carlos Boozer was Utah's best player, but Deron was the engine who sparked the team. At that point, they realized they had a solid 1-2 PG/PF punch.
During the latter-half of 2007-08, as Boozer went through personal problems, his FG% dropped - and he never again reached the level of play he had in 2007. As he struggled in the playoffs, the Jazz officially became "Deron Williams' team." Throw into that AK's injuries and inability to play well without handling the ball, Okur's injuries and Deron transitioning from a good young point-guard into a superstar - I think for KOC it was almost inadvertant how Deron became thee franchise cornerstone.
After losing Booze, Korver, Brewer and Matthews, they hoped Jefferson, Bell and the cheap vets would provide a quick-fix, but they weren't as close as they hoped, frustrations grew and with Jerry stepping down they decided it was a good time to rebuild - this time getting another frontline player to build around.
During the latter-half of 2007-08, as Boozer went through personal problems, his FG% dropped - and he never again reached the level of play he had in 2007. As he struggled in the playoffs, the Jazz officially became "Deron Williams' team." Throw into that AK's injuries and inability to play well without handling the ball, Okur's injuries and Deron transitioning from a good young point-guard into a superstar - I think for KOC it was almost inadvertant how Deron became thee franchise cornerstone.
After losing Booze, Korver, Brewer and Matthews, they hoped Jefferson, Bell and the cheap vets would provide a quick-fix, but they weren't as close as they hoped, frustrations grew and with Jerry stepping down they decided it was a good time to rebuild - this time getting another frontline player to build around.
The best thing though is it looks like Utah heading into the right direction!!
? at pg (Harris is not the answer! Maybe Knight, Irving, Walker, Jimmer)
Hayward
Millsap
Favors
Jefferson
with Miles the 6th man. Great core for a rebuilding team with possible 4 lotto picks in the next 2 years. With very tradeable assets.
Ps I like the idea to sign AK for 3 years at 7-8 million (or less maybe a hometeam discount) then trade him for a lotto pick or young play. He would be a value at that and I think other teams would jump to have him on there team
? at pg (Harris is not the answer! Maybe Knight, Irving, Walker, Jimmer)
Hayward
Millsap
Favors
Jefferson
with Miles the 6th man. Great core for a rebuilding team with possible 4 lotto picks in the next 2 years. With very tradeable assets.
Ps I like the idea to sign AK for 3 years at 7-8 million (or less maybe a hometeam discount) then trade him for a lotto pick or young play. He would be a value at that and I think other teams would jump to have him on there team
Miles should be 8th man, at best.
fatchipper
Well-Known Member
Big time LMAO at this thread.