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Following potential 2017 draftees...

PG_AB said:
He's got 2-way upside, they thought he could do it all.. He's got great lateral quickness, enough to really hedge out on the perimeter. Prototype size, runs like the wind, great feet and great hands, explosive, coordinated, advanced, great instincts, he can shoot, he can handle, block shots, he can faceup and backdown.. He's really a smart kid and definitely a winner IMO.

Harry Giles was clearly a better HS prospect than Derrick Favors, and I hold Favors in high esteem in those sort of conversations, I've always said Favors was a good measurement (one reason was because they always used to say the word 'prototype')

I have to ask what was your initial opinion on Ivan Rabb? who used to be #1 in the class years back... Rabb and Giles will always be linked in my mind, they both looked like lottery picks to me a long time ago.
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Maybe at age 14...He was still projected #2 by dx less than a year ago.
The issue I had when I saw his highlights was that I couldn't give him a position in a very bad way.
When I projected his tiny frame competing with physically superior bigs(e.g. everyone else in the league), I thought he might get a concussion every 2nd week. I don't see how he can go above 230lbs without losing much of his explosiveness.
Even though his mobility is great and reminds me of Stoudemire in a way, Amares frame, skill and BBIQ were good in the pros.
Skill is the next major issue I had: When he's physically unfit to play Center on a great team, he'd have to play on the perimeter, where he'd still be interesting if he wouldn't ruin his team's spacing. So do you only put him on a team with a Center who can populate the arc consistently? Being so situational isn't superstar potential.
Anthony Davis who is similarly nimble has way softer hands, a wider frame and is a little bit longer. Oh, he also can convert jump shots from 3.
Were ppl in denial until a year ago about him dominating high school because he was the only one hitting weights? Did they think he'd develop a reliable jump shot even though his free throws look disappointing?

He looks like a good stats bad team guy right now.
The thing with Favors is that there were no cameras everywhere that measured everything when he went to HS. guys like Dirk were the exception, not the norm. Since roughly 5 years ago teams have heavily readjusted their rosters to new discoveries. Giles doesn't meet these requirements and a possible solution to circumvent it is passing. He isn't a great passer from what I've seen and read.

I had no opinion on Ivan Rabb. Would have to watch some clips.
 
JustTheTip said:
Maybe I'm the weird one here, but watching videos of young boys isn't something I'd be proud of.
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If he is proud of watching 7th graders play basketball in his parent's basement then more power to him lmao. For someone who is 29 and "owns" a successful business and "can retire right now" he sure does have a lot of free time to watch little boys play basketball and post paragraph after paragraph about 200+ basketball prospects.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Why does somebody have to be weird? As a sports fan, it's fun to watch people who have elite talent practice their craft - regardless of age . But just because you don't like watching until they reach whatever age, doesn't make you weird either.
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Watching 7th grade basketball is not watching them practice their craft. Have you ever seen middle school sports? It's a joke and I have no idea how people can make assumptions that a player is the next Durant based off of watching it.
 
JustTheTip said:
Maybe I'm the weird one here, but watching videos of young boys isn't something I'd be proud of.
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I don't watch videos of young boy's, I watch for patterns, signals and outliers, whats drawing/draws the attention of others and of course the winners and the losers and how those results came to pass...

You see, a lot of barriers that people fabricate in order not to learn things are in fact emotional ones, it's often not really a matter of competency at-all, and this topic is a good example.

I believe people are much more competent than they give themselves credit for and just simply lack perspective, I've said it before; People aren't dumb, they're distracted and have mostly been goaded into being selfish consumers.

The stigma surrounding this topic, perpetuated by petulant asshats such as youself, mostly ones I presume with short attention spans have helped me to go from grossly incompetent on this subject to the point where I'm very much still learning but have a pretty good idea of how things work in a relatively short span of time(IMO)..

In doing so I've learned a great deal of 'adjacent knowledge', stuff that I've been putting into practical use well before I ever started posting here and ultimately stuff that I can teach. there's many different aspects involved, one of course is parenting which I also like to pay attention to. Some people are completely unprepared for if their 6th grader grows 5" in a year and all of a sudden everyones telling him to play basketball, certainly that wont be me.. To me there's multiple elements of skill acquisition involved, which is my type of thing.

Maybe you've got some deep-seeded insecurities, emotional issues, whatever baggage/guilt you've got that would make you think "I'm watching young boys, and this is bad"... For me, I operate with a clear heart and open mind so I'd never think that, this is a leisure activity for me, a hobby, I enjoy the randomness, the fact that I always see **** I've never seen before on a more regular basis than you'd expect is highly entertaining to me.

I watch some AAU games, some HS games and the fiba youth tournaments. I don't watch 7th grade basketball games. People fixate on #'s this has been proven many times over. If I'm talking about a kid younger than 9th grade chances are he's already proven he can play up several years of age competition or looks like a very safe bet to do so..

In Sports people should be judged on their merit first, not their age. This is obvious but not common knowledge somehow.. Some kids play varsity at a young age... Emoni Bates is headed to the NBA as a lottery pick.. He's one of the best prospects this century. Some say the best since Marvin Bagley III, yet the responses here about him are overwhelmingly negative because their EMOTIONAL about his age.
 
White Chocolate said:
Watching 7th grade basketball is not watching them practice their craft. Have you ever seen middle school sports? It's a joke and I have no idea how people can make assumptions that a player is the next Durant based off of watching it.
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My son plays middle school basketball, so yes, I've watched more than my share. It is painful. Having said that, when you see a kid that is special, it becomes fun basketball. I too think it's stupid to compare a jr high kid to Durant, but if guys want to do that, i don't begrudge them - just because they have a different outlook than my own.
 
PG_AB said:
I don't watch videos of young boy's, I watch for patterns, signals and outliers, whats drawing/draws the attention of others and of course the winners and the losers and how those results came to pass...

You see, a lot of barriers that people fabricate in order not to learn things are in fact emotional ones, it's often not really a matter of competency at-all, and this topic is a good example.

I believe people are much more competent than they give themselves credit for and just simply lack perspective, I've said it before; People aren't dumb, they're distracted and have mostly been goaded into being selfish consumers.

The stigma surrounding this topic, perpetuated by petulant asshats such as youself, mostly ones I presume with short attention spans have helped me to go from grossly incompetent on this subject to the point where I'm very much still learning but have a pretty good idea of how things work in a relatively short span of time(IMO)..

In doing so I've learned a great deal of 'adjacent knowledge', stuff that I've been putting into practical use well before I ever started posting here and ultimately stuff that I can teach. there's many different aspects involved, one of course is parenting which I also like to pay attention to. Some people are completely unprepared for if their 6th grader grows 5" in a year and all of a sudden everyones telling him to play basketball, certainly that wont be me.. To me there's multiple elements of skill acquisition involved, which is my type of thing.

Maybe you've got some deep-seeded insecurities, emotional issues, whatever baggage/guilt you've got that would make you think "I'm watching young boys, and this is bad"... For me, I operate with a clear heart and open mind so I'd never think that, this is a leisure activity for me, a hobby, I enjoy the randomness, the fact that I always see **** I've never seen before on a more regular basis than you'd expect is highly entertaining to me.

I watch some AAU games, some HS games and the fiba youth tournaments. I don't watch 7th grade basketball games. People fixate on #'s this has been proven many times over. If I'm talking about a kid younger than 9th grade chances are he's already proven he can play up several years of age competition or looks like a very safe bet to do so..

In Sports people should be judged on their merit first, not their age. This is obvious but not common knowledge somehow.. Some kids play varsity at a young age... Emoni Bates is headed to the NBA as a lottery pick.. He's one of the best prospects this century. Some say the best since Marvin Bagley III, yet the responses here about him are overwhelmingly negative because their EMOTIONAL about his age.
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Do you have a television in the bathroom? The math still doesn't add up bro. Unless you have no job, are on a feeding tube, and basically never look away from television, you aren't watching everything you say you're watching.

You've got some good points on empiricism. It's just too bad you aren't actually practicing what you preach. Much of what you say is somebody's opinion recast as your own. If you'd like to defend yourself against this accusation, and you're as open-minded as you say you are, then give us all a breakdown of your schedule, in averages.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Why does somebody have to be weird? As a sports fan, it's fun to watch people who have elite talent practice their craft - regardless of age . But just because you don't like watching until they reach whatever age, doesn't make you weird either.
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Bruh, I'm just messing with the guy. Calm your *******.
 
NAOS said:
Do you have a television in the bathroom? The math still doesn't add up bro. Unless you have no job, are on a feeding tube, and basically never look away from television, you aren't watching everything you say you're watching.

You've got some good points on empiricism. It's just too bad you aren't actually practicing what you preach. Much of what you say is somebody's opinion recast as your own. If you'd like to defend yourself against this accusation, and you're as open-minded as you say you are, then give us all a breakdown of your schedule, in averages.
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I like you more and more each day. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks he's ************. He supposedly owns a successful business, BTW.
 
BTP said:
Maybe at age 14...He was still projected #2 by dx less than a year ago.
n
The issue I had when I saw his highlights was that I couldn't give him a position in a very bad way.
He's a bit stuck between positions but I think he'll prove to be a good PF depending on the landing spot, he's not gonna fall like Deyonta Davis. He fits next to the UK trio of Cousins, Davis and Towns for sure IMO Embiid and Porzingis too, He works next to Brook Lopez, Jokic.. even Olynyk could work if you've got some tough athletes around em.. He's certainly capable of playing C vs small-ball lineups.

When I projected his tiny frame competing with physically superior bigs(e.g. everyone else in the league), I thought he might get a concussion every 2nd week. I don't see how he can go above 230lbs without losing much of his explosiveness.
Even though his mobility is great and reminds me of Stoudemire in a way, Amares frame, skill and BBIQ were good in the pros.
Amare's frame was better.

Skill is the next major issue I had: When he's physically unfit to play Center on a great team, he'd have to play on the perimeter, where he'd still be interesting if he wouldn't ruin his team's spacing. So do you only put him on a team with a Center who can populate the arc consistently? Being so situational isn't superstar potential.
Anthony Davis who is similarly nimble has way softer hands, a wider frame and is a little bit longer. Oh, he also can convert jump shots from 3.
No one's ever confused him with Anthony Davis in the long time I've been following his story, not really a fair standard to hold a player to, thats why I like Favors.
Were ppl in denial until a year ago about him dominating high school because he was the only one hitting weights? Did they think he'd develop a reliable jump shot even though his free throws look disappointing?
He didn't play HS ball in Montana. North Carolina is a hotspot for recruiting talent and has a very competitive HS basketball scene. His dominance as a HS player were not due to being a big fish in a small pond, that's now how you get ranked #1..
He looks like a good stats bad team guy right now.
He's a team first player, old Barkley hater types will cast aspersions on some AAU stars but it's quite obvious some of these players get GREAT mentorship from an early age, and Giles is one of those types. He's more well grounded than you may expect, definitely a basketball player not a diva.
The thing with Favors is that there were no cameras everywhere that measured everything when he went to HS.
This is not how I remember it, Favors had crazy hype and all sorts of youtube videos..
guys like Dirk were the exception, not the norm. Since roughly 5 years ago teams have heavily readjusted their rosters to new discoveries. Giles doesn't meet these requirements and a possible solution to circumvent it is passing. He isn't a great passer from what I've seen and read.

I had no opinion on Ivan Rabb. Would have to watch some clips.
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Do you think he'd be a bad fit in Utah? I think he'd be a really high upside jackpot type of scenario..



Robert Williams and Justin Patton are better rim-protectors, some some of his 'best in-class features' have been tarnished for sure.

I certainly wouldn't underrate his ability to REALLY impress teams in workouts tho.. I also believe that Giles has what it takes to adapt and constantly improve his game and ultimately will fit somewhere, which is what I've also said about Rabb.
 
PG_AB said:
Do you think he'd be a bad fit in Utah? I think he'd be a really high upside jackpot type of scenario..



Robert Williams and Justin Patton are better rim-protectors, some some of his 'best in-class features' have been tarnished for sure.

I certainly wouldn't underrate his ability to REALLY impress teams in workouts tho.. I also believe that Giles has what it takes to adapt and constantly improve his game and ultimately will fit somewhere, which is what I've also said about Rabb.
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Of course if you can get him around 20, he's a no brainer. If there's a 5% chance he learns to shoot the ball and doesn't reinjure his lower body parts he's got serious homerun potential.
I was alluding to him being ranked #1 or #2 as late as last spring in a draft that's very hyped. That was exactly the knock on the 2013 draft - "only potential 2nd fiddles". He doesn't change your franchise's trajectory unless he has the right players around him.
This is connected to my camera comment. I meant it in a way that in the 2000s and before teams overrated rebounding, brute force around the basket and other stuff. So Favors high school time fell right in the time frame before "analytics" became state of the art in NBA franchises when it comes to evaluating talent. Favors as a result was overvalued because convention in terms of scouting was changing.
 
BTP said:
Of course if you can get him around 20, he's a no brainer. If there's a 5% chance he learns to shoot the ball and doesn't reinjure his lower body parts he's got serious homerun potential.
I was alluding to him being ranked #1 or #2 as late as last spring in a draft that's very hyped. That was exactly the knock on the 2013 draft - "only potential 2nd fiddles". He doesn't change your franchise's trajectory unless he has the right players around him.
This is connected to my camera comment. I meant it in a way that in the 2000s and before teams overrated rebounding, brute force around the basket and other stuff. So Favors high school time fell right in the time frame before "analytics" became state of the art in NBA franchises when it comes to evaluating talent. Favors as a result was overvalued because convention in terms of scouting was changing.
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This class wasn't hyped because of it's bigmen though, I'm pretty sure the 2020 draft will prove to have much more variance in high-end prospects positionally.

When you have a 6'9" meatball of muscle like Bam ranked so highly it's ultimately a redflag tbpfh, we went thru this drill (in a much more severe fashion) with Cliff Alexander already..

They debuted Markkanen in the 70's in the HS rankings, and also lottery pick Papagiannis was ranked outside of the top-50 when he was part of the class. Interesting oversights for sure...

This is one of the reason's I've long suspected Isaiah Hartenstein(or even Jeanne) is superior to many of them(same for Rui Hachimura and many of the SF/PF's)... Thon's old news now in this draftee's thread all of a sudden but his HS ranking and actually playing vs many of these players make him a GREAT 'out of class' comparison/measuring stick.

The depth at PG from the HS c/o '16 will have ripple effects in the next 3 or possibly 4 drafts.

It was really hyped before Fultz ever surfaced, Jonathan Isaac too. Sorta when DS4 surfaced is when I really started to get excited about the class.

It's been apparent for a while now that bigs like Ayton and Bagley were better long-term prospects than Giles.. (Jarrett Allen looks good tho, despite missing way too many FT's - He stacks up IMO).. Nowadays superior looking bigs have surfaced in Robert Williams, Justin Patton, Mo Bamba, Moses Brown, Silvio De Souza (I could drop more names of players somewhere close potential wise but those 5 are sufficient).

Favors initial scouting reports painted him as a dominant low-post scorer, thats what I remember, sorta painted him as the type who'd hit you with the shaq dropstep and just jam it... He represented a malleable chunk of some rare-metal that a team could possibly mold into something great.. Always liked him he's one of the rare bullet-proof prospects that can pull off going to the hometown school and not lose momentum over it..

Cousins was #1 on my board. the Nets did Faves dirty by bringing that much attention to him when he was the youngest player in the league trying to get his **** together. The range on Favors was pretty much spot on though, he was one of the top players to be had.
 
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Simisola ****tu has reportedly grown to 6'10". Brought him up a while back when they were calling him the best canadian prospect since Wiggins.

Different skillsets but same type of obvious lotto pick as Jayson Tatum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGuTfEucYXU

He runs at warp speed too.. Will be one of the fastest forwards in the league.
 
@GoodmanESPN
NC State's Mark Gottfried will not return next season, source told ESPN. Will finish out the season.

Interesting to see what Yurtseven does. There will be transfers too.
 
[tweet]832383357560430593[/tweet]

Williams is the type of player that will get many "Mama there goes that man again" calls from Mark Jackson.
 
Moritz Wagner is easily good enough to be a priority 2nd rd pick this year IMO. He's the type of player who could really blow up if Michigan gets into the tournament with a good draw. Actually could see him working himself into the first rd in 2018...

Happ's going at him and has 4 assists already. Wagner is ultimately the better prospect though IMO he's shootign 58% from the floor and 42% from 3 on 2.4attempts per..
 
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