And you want 20 mil per year?

[fishonjazz]

lol, because:



math. Bros.

My math was right. I would only go as high as 20 million per year for hill. So I said I would only go as high as 4 years 80 million. 4 × 20 = 80.
I didn't say I think he will get 4 years 80 million.
Reading comprehension bro.

I think he gets paid more than I would want him to get paid by the jazz or he goes somewhere else.

 

[NAOS]

My math was right. I would only go as high as 20 million per year for hill. So I said I would only go as high as 4 years 80 million. 4 × 20 = 80.
I didn't say I think he will get 4 years 80 million.
Reading comprehension bro.

I think he gets paid more than I would want him to get paid by the jazz or he goes somewhere else.

No prob with reading comprehension over here. It's lol because you may as well have said your number was 2 years for 20. Your number means Hill walks.

Lindsey will regret not coming to a better number and soaking up the $13 Million we had in room this year. Easily the biggest mistake of his tenure. It's going to cost us a big piece, whether that's Hill at the end of this year, or Exum or Hood later on.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But Gordon we have also went from 20 wins, to 30 wins, to 40 wins, and now to 50 wins and want to give you more money than anyone else can and make you our franchise player and have a team that is better than any other team out there offering you the max (and a smaller max) and have a team and coach and system that is perfect for you and helped get you chosen as an all star in the loaded west and you have made your home here and made your family here.

That is a solid rebuttal and I don't think Hayward would make us choose like was suggested earlier. I think It may be more the other way around... Hill will say get Gordon done then I'm more willing to stay.

If Hill leaves I still think we likely retain Hayward... I was just speaking to the premise of if it's all or nothing. We could move Burks and Favs to make it work really easily next year... the year after that it gets tighter. I'm still of the opinion that you retain them all and worry about reconfiguring later... or freaking pay for them... if they are all worth huge deals that means we are really damn good.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

No prob with reading comprehension over here. It's lol because you may as well have said your number was 2 years for 20. Your number means Hill walks.

Lindsey will regret not coming to a better number and soaking up the $13 Million we had in room this year. Easily the biggest mistake of his tenure. It's going to cost us a big piece, whether that's Hill at the end of this year, or Exum or Hood later on.

I think he offered it all though... has it been reported otherwise. I think hill thinks his floor is 4/100 and he may get maxed so walking on 3/88 was okay by him... at least that is how my brain wants to see it.

 

[fishonjazz]

No prob with reading comprehension over here. It's lol because you may as well have said your number was 2 years for 20. Your number means Hill walks.

Lindsey will regret not coming to a better number and soaking up the $13 Million we had in room this year. Easily the biggest mistake of his tenure. It's going to cost us a big piece, whether that's Hill at the end of this year, or Exum or Hood later on.

so my math was just fine then.
I think the jazz offered him what they could for the extension and he said no.

I think hill thinks (probably correctly) that he will get way more than the jazz were able to offer.

If that is the case then I think the jazz should let someone else overpay him.

 

[NAOS]

I think he offered it all though... has it been reported otherwise. I think hill thinks his floor is 4/100 and he may get maxed so walking on 3/88 was okay by him... at least that is how my brain wants to see it.

my brain wants to see it like this:

Hill wants to win; so he wants to see Hayward inked first. Once that's done, he'll sign for 4/90ish.

My brain is wistful. But I'm certain 4/80 is off. That brain is beyond any kind of realism.

 

[fishonjazz]

That is a solid rebuttal and I don't think Hayward would make us choose like was suggested earlier. I think It may be more the other way around... Hill will say get Gordon done then I'm more willing to stay.

If Hill leaves I still think we likely retain Hayward... I was just speaking to the premise of if it's all or nothing. We could move Burks and Favs to make it work really easily next year... the year after that it gets tighter. I'm still of the opinion that you retain them all and worry about reconfiguring later... or freaking pay for them... if they are all worth huge deals that means we are really damn good.

Good post.
I'm certain that Hayward gets the max that the jazz can offer and he stays.

No idea what will happen with hill other than he will get a bigger contact than I would be comfortable paying him if it were my money. But it's not my money so hopefully they retain hayward and hill and then go way into the luxury tax to re-sign the current jazz men worth re-signing along with really good free agents and we win a championship.

 

[fishonjazz]

my brain wants to see it like this:

Hill wants to win; so he wants to see Hayward inked first. Once that's done, he'll sign for 4/90ish.

My brain is wistful. But I'm certain 4/80 is off. That brain is beyond any kind of realism.

Luckily I don't think anyone's brain is thinking hill signs for 4 years 80 million.

So we can all just agree to agree about that.

 

[kabenac]

Hill is worth $20,000,000 a season, perhaps even a bit more, but $30,000,000 is ridiculous. The guy is 30 and there aren't a lot of systems that are ideal to how he plays the game.

I get the cap is going up but geez....

Heck, Chris Paul gets $21,468,695 a season, Curry makes half that (not his RC contract but an amazingly cheap contract, nonetheless), and Westbrook and Lillard don't even make $30,000,000 a season. Aside from LeBron, I don't believe anyone gets paid $30,000,000+ a season.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

He'll be 31 when he ink's his next contract. And I certainly agree he's not a 30 mil a year guy.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Hill is worth $20,000,000 a season, perhaps even a bit more, but $30,000,000 is ridiculous. The guy is 30 and there aren't a lot of systems that are ideal to how he plays the game.

I get the cap is going up but geez....

Heck, Chris Paul gets $21,468,695 a season, Curry makes half that (not his RC contract but an amazingly cheap contract, nonetheless), and Westbrook and Lillard don't even make $30,000,000 a season. Aside from LeBron, I don't believe anyone gets paid $30,000,000+ a season.

Apples to oranges... compare his deal to Conleys.

He's a good deal at 4/80... I am okay with him at 4/100. As long as he is relatively healthy he is worth that to is for at least the first two years... he's moveable on the last two if need be. 4/130 and that is a really tough decision.

He has less mileage than some of the guys his age... his game should age well... his injuries this year are not the chronic reoccurring type.

Haven't run all the numbers but I think we'd have no problem keeping Hood... likely send out Favs and Burks... I am not sure Exum or Lyles command a big extension at the moment... honestly the cap hoarding we've done the last few years is a reminder that space is an asset but it expires. I'd rather retain guys and figure out the money later. The young guys are restricted so if they get big offers you can match and trade them later if need be.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I mean miles plumlee got 4/50... people crapped in their pants at the money... Milwaukee was able to move the deal for basically expiring. Hill fits a lot of places so if Dante blows up and we are ready to turn the reigns over I think it is plausible to think we could move Hill and get off his money.

Hill is worth at least two plumlees maybe all of them and a couple zellers.

Give him teh monies!

 

[mdalby]

Not really. Nobody started getting on Hill's case until reports came out that he thinks he can get the max.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz

If the rumors are true that he is trying to get a contract in that range, then this sours my opinion on Hill now. I know this is primarily an economic decision and people are free to make decisions based on capitalism and supply demand etc... I just appreciate team guys like Tim Duncan that do not try to ink out every nickel out of an organization at the detriment of the team as a whole.

 

[b_line]

No prob with reading comprehension over here. It's lol because you may as well have said your number was 2 years for 20. Your number means Hill walks.

Lindsey will regret not coming to a better number and soaking up the $13 Million we had in room this year. Easily the biggest mistake of his tenure. It's going to cost us a big piece, whether that's Hill at the end of this year, or Exum or Hood later on.

How do you know Lindsey didn't offer every cent they could to Hill? What if Hill just wanted a 4 year contract?

 

[b_line]

If George wanted anything less than $100 over 4 years, he probably would have gotten the 3/$85m from the jazz that they could offer, then signed a two year contract at the end of that before he retires. He is probably thinking he will get at least $100m guaranteed in free agency, likely with a player option for the last year.

 

[♪alt13]

If George wanted anything less than $100 over 4 years, he probably would have gotten the 3/$85m from the jazz that they could offer, then signed a two year contract at the end of that before he retires. He is probably thinking he will get at least $100m guaranteed in free agency, likely with a player option for the last year.

Yep

Cp3 is a year older and he's going to get a 210 million dollar deal. Hill will almost surely get a crack at Paul in the playoffs. Hill is looking for way more than 100 million.

 

[vegas]

This gets back to the Talent per dollar equation. Hill on a Conley type contract turns us into the Grizzlies. We have to have the right pieces, but the right price plays a huge part in being able to get the right pieces.

For reference the Cavs are the only team in the tax this year. In 2015 there were 6. I have a feeling the Jazz will go over the tax threshold at some point in the future, but I don't expect they will ever do it year after year unless we somehow land a league MVP type player.

Most posters in this thread know this, but for the casual reader: Since the tax is no longer a 1:1 ratio, going in the salary tax $20 mill = that $20 mill plus:
$65 mill if you were into the luxury tax the year before. (207 mill payroll vs 122 max if you are below the tax level)
$45 mill if you were not a tax payer the previous season. (187 mill payroll)

If we have the right players at the wrong $/talent unit ratio, you simply can't afford enough of them.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

This gets back to the Talent per dollar equation. Hill on a Conley type contract turns us into the Grizzlies. We have to have the right pieces, but the right price plays a huge part in being able to get the right pieces.

For reference the Cavs are the only team in the tax this year. In 2015 there were 6. I have a feeling the Jazz will go over the tax threshold at some point in the future, but I don't expect they will ever do it year after year unless we somehow land a league MVP type player.

Most posters in this thread know this, but for the casual reader: Since the tax is no longer a 1:1 ratio, going in the salary tax $20 mill = that $20 mill plus:
$65 mill if you were into the luxury tax the year before. (207 mill payroll vs 122 max if you are below the tax level)
$45 mill if you were not a tax payer the previous season. (187 mill payroll)

If we have the right players at the wrong $/talent unit ratio, you simply can't afford enough of them.

Yes, but letting talent walk for nothing isn't the right answer. If the Grizz wanted to trade Conley this offseason they'd get some assets in the process. He's younger of course, but has had more serious injuries in the past than Hill.

Also, a key difference is our development curve is much higher than theirs... they don't have young talent and have sent out their first round picks while we have been acquiring them.

Even so, I'd rather be the Grizzlies the next few years than some of the alternatives.

We could send out Burks and trade Favs for a less expensive piece and other assets and still likely retain Hill and Ingles and be under the tax. If they wanted to keep Favs or Burks next year we could also trade JJ in a salary dump if it came down to it.

Also, I think the Millers are due for some tax... someday I will run the numbers but i think we have been the lowest payroll in total over the last 4 or 5 years. We have sold picks for cash and have high attendance. Pay a little to keep the team together if we have to.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yes, but letting talent walk for nothing isn't the right answer. If the Grizz wanted to trade Conley this offseason they'd get some assets in the process. He's younger of course, but has had more serious injuries in the past than Hill.

Also, a key difference is our development curve is much higher than theirs... they don't have young talent and have sent out their first round picks while we have been acquiring them.

Even so, I'd rather be the Grizzlies the next few years than some of the alternatives.

We could send out Burks and trade Favs for a less expensive piece and other assets and still likely retain Hill and Ingles and be under the tax. If they wanted to keep Favs or Burks next year we could also trade JJ in a salary dump if it came down to it.

Also, I think the Millers are due for some tax... someday I will run the numbers but i think we have been the lowest payroll in total over the last 4 or 5 years. We have sold picks for cash and have high attendance. Pay a little to keep the team together if we have to.

Does trading favors and burks for less expensive pieces make us better than we currently are?

Does dumping JJ make us better than we currently are?

Seems like in order to keep hill we have to get worse than we currently are.

 

[fishonjazz]

One other risk with hill. This is the best year of his career. A contract year. It would suck to pay him the bigs bucks based on his play this season and then never see him play like he is this season going forward.

Also the injuries. Though they seem to be short term things rather than long term so I don't worry too much about that.