The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Crazy how little burn this story is getting. Someone's head should roll after this. You can't have unaccountable killing of hundreds of people.
https://usat.ly/2ohD1kz
https://usat.ly/2ohD1kz
US Kills 100 innocent Civilians
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
It's a terrible thing.
First I want to say, I don't believe the U.S. takes civilian deaths lightly. I think they do everything possible to avoid them. Sometimes, in a war zone, with active fighting, such things are unavoidable, especially when the enemy takes no action to protect the civilians in their occupied area and makes no effort to separate themselves from civilians.
That said, the families of those civilians killed almost certainly will have deep and strongly held animosity to the U.S.. The families of those killed will be our future enemies. Not because they hate freedom, but because they see us as the destroyers of their world.
First I want to say, I don't believe the U.S. takes civilian deaths lightly. I think they do everything possible to avoid them. Sometimes, in a war zone, with active fighting, such things are unavoidable, especially when the enemy takes no action to protect the civilians in their occupied area and makes no effort to separate themselves from civilians.
That said, the families of those civilians killed almost certainly will have deep and strongly held animosity to the U.S.. The families of those killed will be our future enemies. Not because they hate freedom, but because they see us as the destroyers of their world.
I wonder if this has anything to do with Trump?
Good to know that destabilizing half of the world comes with the utmost concern for civilian casualties.
That's were most of our tax money goes, killing foreigners.
It is disturbing to realize that we are the terrorists.
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I'm sorry you didn't already know that. Or are you saying that the U.S. targets civilians in military strikes and/or disregards the possibility of civilian casualties in their lust for blood?
Did you stop reading early and miss the part where I said that it is our killing of civilians that turns people against us?
Also, I'm not endorsing U.S. foreign policy in my post and I'm not sure why you responded to me the way you did.
Right. I wasn't directly addressing what you said, although I did quote you.
I do think the US government tries to limit civilian casualties. Kind of. Like they'll sell cluster bombs to Saudi Arabia, but they'll totally release a statement of condemnation once the Saudis use it to murder 1000s of civilians.
I see your point.
(a) "If confirmed, it would be the largest civilian casualty incident in the coalition air campaign in Iraq and Syria, which is more than two years old... It is not clear what went wrong or even if the coalition was responsible..."
(b) "Most strikes require approval by a general officer after planners examine intelligence, video and other evidence to ensure the target is legitimate and that there are no civilians within range."
--> yes, that totally sounds like terrorists. Trying to make sure that absolutely no civilians are in range. /sarcasm
If accurate, yes, it's horrible. But that's completely different than INTENTIONALLY targeting civilians for the purpose of terrorizing the population.
How about when the CIA takes out democratically elected governments they don't like, creating chaos on an entire continent for decades? Or when they finance and arm terror groups until they become a force to be reckoned with? How about when they invade stable countries, unleashing the terrorists they enabled on the rest of the world? You should write the millions of people living in terror through the US government's direct (e.g. massive classified drone assassination programs), or indirect (supporting the Israeli apartheid), actions about our most pure of intentions. It'll be a comfort as we blow them to bits.
I was thinking more of how it is viewed by the families of those killed. I can obviously see the differences.
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Red
Well-Known Member
There are at least 400,000 civilians remaining in West Mosul. If you're trying to drive out ISIS fighters with an air campaign, civilians are going to bear the brunt of casualties:
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170325-4000-iraq-civilians-killed-in-west-mosul-offensive/
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170319-civilians-bear-brunt-of-us-iraq-assault-on-mosul/
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170325-4000-iraq-civilians-killed-in-west-mosul-offensive/
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170319-civilians-bear-brunt-of-us-iraq-assault-on-mosul/
I disagree it's different. Killing innocent people is killing innocent people. If someone killed your family by being incompetent at their jobs you wouldn't say "Oh well they didnt do it on purpose".
Red
Well-Known Member
https://fpif.org/if-aleppo-was-a-crime-against-humanity-isnt-mosul/
"Just as in Aleppo, civilian buildings such as hospitals and mosques have been the targets of U.S. attacks. In one incident, Nineveh Media Center — Mosul’s main news outlet — was hit, killing an estimated 50 civilians. Activists claimed the center was targeted due to its publication of ISIS propaganda, which even so would be a disturbing and violent attack on press freedom. Elsewhere, U.S. Apache helicopters, along with Iraqi ground forces, shelled and pummeled buildings in the Dawasa neighborhood, killing 130 civilians.
White phosphorus, a chemical weapon capable of burning human flesh to the bone, has also been used by coalition forces in the city.
It is estimated that the coalition killed up to 370 Iraqi civilians, including scores of children, in the first week of March alone. In the words of one Mosul resident, “Now it feels like the coalition is killing more people” than ISIS."
"Just as in Aleppo, civilian buildings such as hospitals and mosques have been the targets of U.S. attacks. In one incident, Nineveh Media Center — Mosul’s main news outlet — was hit, killing an estimated 50 civilians. Activists claimed the center was targeted due to its publication of ISIS propaganda, which even so would be a disturbing and violent attack on press freedom. Elsewhere, U.S. Apache helicopters, along with Iraqi ground forces, shelled and pummeled buildings in the Dawasa neighborhood, killing 130 civilians.
White phosphorus, a chemical weapon capable of burning human flesh to the bone, has also been used by coalition forces in the city.
It is estimated that the coalition killed up to 370 Iraqi civilians, including scores of children, in the first week of March alone. In the words of one Mosul resident, “Now it feels like the coalition is killing more people” than ISIS."
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Winning the hearts and minds of the people...
But remember, if any of these family members become terrorists, it's not because we did anything wrong. It's because they hate our freedoms and religion.
How do we think that this is helping anything? The people in Iraq and Syria aren't going to see us as the good guys as long as we keep blowing up innocent people. We've spent most of this 21st century trying to shape and hold this region to our liking.
How's that workin out? Has Syria and Iraq ever been in such turmoil?
Seems like this region was a lot better off when Hussein was in power.
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I don't get your brag about the life and times of Hussain's Iraq. Pretty dumb.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Under Saddam, terrorists weren't running around, infrastructure, electricity, and basic utilities were better, and the country wasn't a threat to the stability of the region.
Today? What little government Iraq has is a puppet regime of Iran and most of the country runs without electricity or security. It's anarchy when it's not outright Islamic Fundamentalist terrorism.
LogGrad98
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