LogGrad98
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US Kills 100 innocent Civilians
- Thread starter The Thriller
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The Thriller
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Oh so you admit that saddam hadn't done anything since the Persian gulf war huh? Wow so why did we invade in 2003 if you have to go back to even before the Persian Gulf War to cite his crimes?
You might want to pay attention to dates next time.
Get Educated on the history of that region.
The Thriller
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Why did we invade Iraq in 2003 anyway? To punish him for his deeds in the late 80s early 90s? Wasn't the Desert Storm enough? Why didn't 41 take him out if he was such a bad guy?
I think a great question that you idiots should try to answer is how is Iraq better off today in 2017 than in 2003 pre Iraq war?
I think a great question that you idiots should try to answer is how is Iraq better off today in 2017 than in 2003 pre Iraq war?
LogGrad98
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I just posted the first thing that came up on Google. Did you read the second post? Get educated in the history of the region. Mind-boggling that you would support a genocidal monster just so you can prove the repubs wrong. What the **** is wrong with you? You having any impact on young minds scares the living hell out of me tbh.
The Thriller
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how's Iraq and the Middle East better off now than before the invasion? You realize that nearly half a million have died in Iraq since the invasion, right?
https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians/iraqi
Other estimates I've seen go up to 1 million.
Furthermore, saddam Hussein for about a decade before our invasion in 2003 had been a stable force. He kept Islamic terrorism out of Iraq and acted as a check to Iran.
I honestly don't know why we are having this discussion. My knowledge of this subject is so much better than yours, it's not even funny.
It's ironic LG that you incessantly insult those who have far superior knowledge over subject matters that you argue ignorantly about. I get you lack self esteem. So rather than refute points you attack them personally. But that doesn't help you to win arguments.
Btw, im working on my PH D on Middle Eastern studies. So please, continue to wiki me with acts that saddam committed in the 80s. That'll clearly beat me in an argument.
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The Thriller
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For those looking to educate themselves on Iraq and not merely copy and paste links from Wikipedia, please read:
"Black flags." Great book that shows how al qaeda Iraq began, which became Isis.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Flags-...F8&qid=1490503668&sr=1-1&keywords=Black+flags
"Imperial life in the emerald city." Great book showing how corrupt and inept the rebuild was.
https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Lif...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2TMJEEQC7YC4YN42SX4C
"The Forever War." Great background on the region.
https://www.amazon.com/Forever-War-Dexter-Filkins/dp/0307279448
"Black flags." Great book that shows how al qaeda Iraq began, which became Isis.
https://www.amazon.com/Black-Flags-...F8&qid=1490503668&sr=1-1&keywords=Black+flags
"Imperial life in the emerald city." Great book showing how corrupt and inept the rebuild was.
https://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Lif...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2TMJEEQC7YC4YN42SX4C
"The Forever War." Great background on the region.
https://www.amazon.com/Forever-War-Dexter-Filkins/dp/0307279448
FalseFlagg K
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he probably teaches that Castro was a misunderstood gentle giant who just loved his people.
We invaded Iraq in 2003 because Hussein successfully bluffed that he had biological weapons. He was trying to trick Iran and Saudi Arabia, but we also fell for his trick. We believed that he still had some of the weapons he absolutely had in the 90s. He set his own trap. He was a mass murdering monster. I don't mourn his death, at all. He killed more Iraqis than the U.S. ever did.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I focus on middle eastern studies.
But please, it wasn't like Batista was a saint. That's the problem with Americans in general, they only see things in white and black. Good and evil. Right or wrong. Saddam was a dictator. But considering the anarchy and complete destabilizing of that entire region since 2003? Just ask Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
They all preferred saddam over ISIS and irans new puppet government.
We have created a humanitarian crisis and opened the floodgates for terrorists.
The Thriller
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You're not telling the whole truth. The UN weapons inspectors found zero evidence of wmds. They reported this at least 3 times to Washington. Saddam wasn't attempting to trick us. He admitted that he didn't have wmds and complied with UN weapons inspections.
It was Dubya who ignored Saddam, ignored the inspectors, ignored France and Germany, and went ahead on his invasion over his "gut feeling."
You should read Fiasco. Or, for a simple and easy to read version of what happened In Iraq, "Bush."
https://www.amazon.com/Bush-Jean-Edward-Smith/dp/1476741190
I deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. I know that at the time we were concerned about his biological weapons. We ran drills where we put on our bio-weapons suits, we did it a lot, like they really wanted us to know how to put them on in the event Saddam attacked us with them.
I get it, though. You were here. You never had anything to worry about. You think it was all a big joke. Good times. Just people in the military earning easy money. Saddam was a Teddy Bear.
Saddam Hussein was a mass murdering monster.
Can we stop at that point and hash things out? I'm not willing to gloss over that part of it. If you don't want to talk about Hussein's atrocities then I don't want to talk to you. If you want to glorify the stability Saddam provided all I can assume is that you are okay with mass murder so long as it provides ample public services.
The Thriller
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Duh. Of course the armed forces prepared for chemical and bio warfare, our POTUS ignored all of the experts from the UN. Did you even read my post?
I get it, you didn't have other options coming out of high school and joined our armed forces and did one hell of a service by invading a defenseless country that didn't attack us. Nice. The greatest generation that rid the world of fascism should be commending you. Reading is hard. Studying to get scholarships and go to school to actually learn something rather than merely to just blow stuff up is hard.
Now before you get upset at this low personal assumption, please remember, you attacked me first.
But that doesn't take away from the fact that saddam, inspectors, France and Germany, and our own ambassadors declared that Iraq didn't have wmds and yet our POTUS still went along with his invasion.
But hey, we "freed" Iraq. I'm sure most Iraqis feel our freedumb everyday as they don't have electricity or running water and daily their mosques and markets are blown up by either Isis our by us. Shall we ask the family members of those killed in this last attack on how they view people like coalition forces vs Isis? I'm sure they'll see us as heroes, right?
Winnin the hearts and minds!
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With or without WMDs Saddam Hussein was terrorizing his own people. He murdered them on the regular by a variety of means. You seem to think he was a pretty okay dude. I don't get that. That is the point of everything I've written in response to you.
I'm not saying the invasion was justified. I'm not saying it was a smashing success. I'm not saying the world is a better place as a result.
I'm just not willing to say everything was okay when Saddam was in charge.
You still can't admit that.
And your opinion of why a person joins the military is pretty telling.
You know the joke about why a person becomes a teacher?
ha ha. Those who can't do, teach.
What is a national shame is the way we let socialists take over the educational system. Since John Dewey came to America to enlighten Americans about "education". The education depts. of colleges nationally is a disgrace. Then we let these propagandized socialists teach perfectly good kids.
Well, there may be some reasonable hope for mankind, even so. Most people emerge from our schools basically considering their education a waste of time, and go into the work place rejecting the indoctrination. It might take a few years, but anyone except government employees will tend to move the other way politically.
Even immigrants from Mexico, where the public schools teach rank Marxism and are propagandized to "Go North, and reclaim your Heritage", end up by the second generation starting their own businesses and turning into capitalists who have firmly rejected their educational political indoctrination.
Thriller has joined some political activist agenda pushing organization funded by some billionaires or globalist ideologues with perhaps only a few million dollars but who have sucked up on some teat of the billionaires. All he reads is this stuff about how American is the nest of all that can be detested in the world. And how Hillary and Obama who both manifestly spout Marxist rhetoric and dream of reducing America to a conforming utopian third world dictatorship, are our only hope to achieve worldwide respectability.
The fact is, Russia is not communist. Sure Putin and others sometimes use some of the ideals rhetorically, but as my poor but real communist friend complains, Russia and China were, and are, "State Capitalist", "Statist", phony communists. And while I realize that Marxism and communism generally, even today's progressive idealists, have been indoctrinated with an intrinsically false reality, I can sympathize with the basic hope of a peaceful world without huge government or corporate interests displacing the common man. But the facts are different. Communism in Russia and China were the result of British agents orchestrating a global division of power, with both sides quite well-managed from behind the curtains by financial interests at the highest levels. In other words, a complete farce of a "Cold War" and a complete farce of a peacekeeping "United Nations".
The whole puppet show set up to misdirect the public worldwide. Folks who want to rule the world that way generally take a dim view of American constitutional rule of law. A rule of law that actually does guarantee some human rights and bears the political possibility of "government of the people, by the people, and for the people".
And yes Saddam Hussein was a Bush Project that went bad. And Bush the Younger just had to finish the job. Yes Saddam was a monster, but not a monster installed by Russia, just one installed by America who decided to play with Russia. He was killer and a madman, and everything you say.
For Thriller, the question is why put up these threads about The United States and a hundred killed "innocent" citizens when the ISIS group has killed tens of thousands of innocents, and are using any "innocent citizens" left in the most despicable cowardly way possible.... as human shield.....
Such representations of America as Thrillers are such gross unbalanced and unfair examples of political rhetoric the question arises as to whether he is doing any thinking, but just reposting trash from leftist political sites.
♪alt13
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Huh
Pretty sure we invaded because then CIA director lied to then Secretary of Defense that Iraq was building centrifuges to enrich uranium. A lie that the Secretary of defence then went on to share with the rest of the world. A lie that led to that Secretary of Defense resigning and not joining the Bush Administration for a second term.
Not quite right.
We shouldn't presume the "lie" is a stand-alone explanation. Most lies have reasons, purposes. Reasons and purposes sometimes have motivations, and motivations sometimes possess humans, particularly politicians like the Bushes.
and politicians sometimes have scapegoats or fall-guys who once traded on favors for a day in the sun, some post in an administration that seemed propitious.
You still cannot blame ordinary Americans, or American soldiers acting on the commander-in-chief's orders, and sometimes it would miss the point of responsibility to blame a mere sitting President, because Presidents generally are patsies for their interested key supporters, like the Rockefellers have been for both the Bushes and the Clintons.
I had a friend who took an IED in his groin, who survived and who was driving other vets around town to doctor appointments and clinics and occasionally to a park or something for years. Meat for the meatgrinders, I'm afraid, but as honorable as anyone in this country. As a nation we treat them despicably in many ways, with insensitive ideologues like Thriller mocking their motives and such.
You're doing an injustice to our military invoking collective responsibility for our national policies on regular Americans who go about life paying taxes or serving in the military, while you rhetorically fail to place the full responsibility on the chief protagonists for geopolitical manipulations. But, heh, you might be called a conspiracy theorist if you did, just for recognizing the seats of real power that do exist and do exert controlling influence......
No ordinary American really wanted the war in Iraq, but under our false "Press" and our propagandized New Worlder idealists, we were told we had to go set up democracy of our kind in a place where it fundamentally is out of place. And we obeyed our Media and political expert "leaders", all in the tank with Rockefellers' CFR.
Put the blame on David Rockefeller. He's proud of what he's done.
Rockefeller hates Trump because Trump is a bad dog who won't just sit and take orders. Trump is the first President we've had in seventy years who possesses any capacity for real independence, except for that nice B actor, before he took a shot in the head.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I am not doing an injustice to US soldiers.
I think I agree with Thriller on his question, except for his calling you an idiot (along with the rest of us). I was against the war in Iraq. I had a brother in the Army who was a chemical weapons specialist. We had been doing mock wars involving chemical weapon threats in Iraq since at least 1966. His training manuals are in my possession. Of course, we turned to the most fearful possibilities to goad the public into accepting the "Bush Personal Vendetta Against The Puppet Who Broke Our Strings" War.
My information, generally excluded by MSM standards of public management, is that there was sufficient lead-up time allowed so Russia could actually remove their deployed resources prior to our attacks. So the evidence was removed, so we can just call our personnel liars. But the weapons were not the real issue. We had a high-level, higher than the Bushes, agenda for the area under UN guidelines.... essentially British Imperatives. The Bushes were willing to oblige.
OK. Your post laid it all on a lie from the CIA director. It's just not that simple. Bullet was about 90% right, except about the bluff. Saddam was a reckless nutjob who scared even his Russian allies, who reconsidered their material support. The "lie" was actually truth, but it became an inconvenient truth after the Russians got their stuff out. Anyhow, it was a useful lie for those who wanted the war.
It was a reasonable belief based on the trust we place in our leaders, a particularly necessary virtue we need our military personnel to have. We need it so bad, we should actually just act on truth, not on geopolitical agendas made up by sociopathic monsters who think they're our managers/owners. Like David Rockefeller.
So I don't think WE went to war with Iraq. The US government did. It was not an execution of the will of the people, their values, or their interests. The military is just a tool of the oligarchs, who are above accountability or reproach, even when their actions lead to the suffering of millions of people, and to a major security crisis worldwide. It amazes me that the American people, who are victims in this, continue to defend the actions and "intentions" of the oligarchs.
This isn't on the military. It's on the plutocracy.
PS. Saddam, as horrible a sociopath as he was, did not kill nearly as many people as the Iraq war.
This isn't on the military. It's on the plutocracy.
PS. Saddam, as horrible a sociopath as he was, did not kill nearly as many people as the Iraq war.