The two main questions I'd have then are:
1. How far down the rabbit hole did this go so we know who to make the president. Pence? Ryan?
2. What do we do in regards to Russia. War? Massive sanctions and cold war?
Donald takes a dump and accuses President Obama of wiretapping him
- Thread starter The Thriller
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The two main questions I'd have then are:
1. How far down the rabbit hole did this go so we know who to make the president. Pence? Ryan?
2. What do we do in regards to Russia. War? Massive sanctions and cold war?
Red
Well-Known Member
It's likely Paul Manafort had something to do with that change in the GOP platform. Something that I missed until very recently is someone hacked text messages made by Manafort's daughter, revealing some interesting info regarding Manafort's work in the Ukraine...
https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-manafort-daughter-text-messages-ukraine-2017-3
"In a series of texts reviewed by Business Insider that appear to have been sent by Andrea to her sister, Jessica, in March 2015, Andrea said their father had "no moral or legal compass."
"Don't fool yourself," Andrea wrote to her sister, according to the texts. "That money we have is blood money."
"You know he has killed people in Ukraine? Knowingly," she continued, according to the reviewed texts. "As a tactic to outrage the world and get focus on Ukraine. Remember when there were all those deaths taking place. A while back. About a year ago. Revolts and what not. Do you know whose strategy that was to cause that, to send those people out and get them slaughtered."........
".........In a series of texts to a friend in March 2015, Andrea appears to have said Ukraine was "late in paying" her father.
"He is cash poor right now," the text said. "And now Ukraine is late in paying him."
In a later exchange with a man who appeared to be Andrea's cousin — and one of her father's former employees — Collin Bond, Andrea appears to have said her mother and father couldn't go through a "public divorce" because Manafort had "too many skeletons" and "his work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable."
Zombie
Well-Known Member
That's why this could rise to the level of constitutional crisis. If the worst is true and there was collusion and it runs throughout the Trump administration we'd probably see something similar to the whole Nixon debacle. Pence would step down and Congress would vote in a VP replacement who would take power after trump steps down/ is impeached.
The problem with this solution is that it allows the party whose nominee betrayed this country to stay in power. That doesn't seem okay to me, but short of a special election (which I can't imagine happening), I don't know what we could do.
As for Russia, the Obama administration had levied sanctions against Russia in retaliation for the attacks. I think that's the right way to deal with them. I think going after them economically is the right way. In the meantime we should support eastern Europe against further expansion by Putin, by providing them with weapons if necessary.
The problem with this solution is that it allows the party whose nominee betrayed this country to stay in power. That doesn't seem okay to me, but short of a special election (which I can't imagine happening), I don't know what we could do.
As for Russia, the Obama administration had levied sanctions against Russia in retaliation for the attacks. I think that's the right way to deal with them. I think going after them economically is the right way. In the meantime we should support eastern Europe against further expansion by Putin, by providing them with weapons if necessary.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've been following this whole Russian affair pretty closely, Manafort sticks out to me as a particularly interesting individual.
It's very telling that in the last few weeks the Trump administration has been characterizing Manafort as someone who had 'very limited role' in the campaign.
He was the ****ing campaign manager!
Newsflash Dutch not protecting the environment is THE WORST THING. Its the only thing. If there is no earth, there is no place to have this debate.
We must protect our land, air, water, and natural resources. They are the most important thing!
wow...
"I guess his supporting maternity leave is bad as well. Who needs 6 weeks paid leave?" Thats a great thing. Its a liberal view. I'm all for it. When is it happening?
"Spending on our infrastructure must suck as well. No need to fix those decaying bridges." I'm all for it. This is what we need to do over the wall.
Again, what has been built or done so far? Lets wait and see.
"Not opposing legal weed if a state wants it. Terrible idea" Why put in Jeff Sessions?
"Push employers to provide child care." Liberal idea. Love it. Lets see it.
"Improve cyber security" has anything been done? I agree its a critical issue as we've seen other countries attack us.
I want him to succeed. I have a fortune in the market. I want them to stay strong. I am critical over what he has done so far.
Everything you mentioned was campaign talk or something he might do. I will applaud anything on that list. I want him to do good things. I could list out 100 things Obama said in his 8 years of all the good things he wanted to do. What would you say to that? Show me! right?
So far its been an absolute nightmare. I live in another country and see and hear what the world is saying. Its not good my friend.
Health care failed. Huge blow to his agenda, and power. Huge. His false claims of wire tapping. His golfing. His tweeting insults to celebrities.
Its an embarrassment. The stock market and job growth has continued. If that does stay strong I'll give him credit for that. Under Obama remember
those numbers were cooked and made up right? Now he says they are real. Do you see the childish nature of this man? Its hilarious at times.
Exactly. So far Trumps campaign promises have been hot air.
No easy answer for sure. Like the syria/iraq/middle east conflicts. Which is why I liked how Obama handled it. I know you disagree, and think
his handling was a disaster. We just agree to disagree on that one. The interesting part of talking with you is you do get how tricky these situations are. Obama, Trump, and many followers have at times downplayed how tough the enemy is. ISIS isnt the JV team, and no you cant carpet bomb them away. There is no easy quick fix answers to the middle east or russia.
I dont want to get into war with Russia. I think by putting our troops in Poland and Lativa and showing strength hopefully will deter them. I have no idea why Russia likes playing these games. They cant win. Sure they want back their old territories, but its just not going to happen. Most of those countries love their independence and would fight to the death to keep their sovereignty. Crimea is the exception.
Red
Well-Known Member
As this article points out, the week before Nunes visited the White House grounds and met with his source, Trump himself may have hinted as what was coming. Which can easily suggest coverup:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news...licans-blew-up-the-house-russia-investigation
"The White House and Nunes were clearly coördinating this strategy. A few days before the hearing, Trump seemed to offer a preview of it. In an interview on Fox News, the President said that he “will be submitting things” to Nunes’s committee “very soon,” and “perhaps speaking about this next week,” adding that “you’re going to find some very interesting items coming to the forefront over the next two weeks.”
-----------------------------
I think without question now the White House is trying to kill the House investigation. And they may have succeeded. We may have to depend on a more bipartisan Senate investigation. Or more leaks of a nature that will increase demands by the American people that we get to the truth of the matter....
It's been 60 days lol.
Everyone sees it. But that is not all I see. I see people who are incapable of also saying "OK, great I agree with that" with out back handed insults or attacks. Comes off Dutch like.
Personally I think there are multiple areas to hit him on that have real substance beyond his hair, golfing, skin tone, twitter.
Areas like his admin falling way behind on filling vacant posts across gov., his needless and anti productive stance towards Mexico, the needless hike in the militaries budget, the whole potential Russian thing...
As far as relations with Russia go, I say let them have Syria. Iran and Russia will take Iraq anyways. Build up NATO (I'm for a pull back to formal allies across the globe anyways) and build up an "Arab NATO" led by Saudia Arabia to counter Iran and Russia in the middle east. Jordan, Qatar, Kuwait, UAE and various north African countries are all prime candidates to join.
On healthcare: I was the first one on here to talk about the vote being pulled and how bad that looked on the admin and by extension the Rs. I was not in favor of repealing it anyways.
To many different areas to comment on lol. Like I said I am not even defending him. But the attacks on him often border on the uselessly absurd.
People just can't detach emotion from politics I guess.
DutchJazzer
Banned
so the only way to protect the enviroment is to believe in this whatever they clal it thes edays HOAX which is based on simulations and flawed models, who have been proven wrong again and again
but is the EPA protecting the environment? how can a agency who is not accountable protect the enviroment
and I am protecting the environment more than you think. i just don't believe in the global warming hoax!. I live in a country(i live few months in Netherlands few months in south America i go back and forth) but in south America people throw plastic bags out of their car. no trashcans in public places, people throw their plastic boles out of the window, i never do that, even though i was brought up in these backward countries. you don't know how i live where i live, i care more about mother nature, the animals and the environment. when i litterally walk out my door 6 foot from me is a lush green big garden that offsets my carbon footprint 10 fold! if we go to our farm about 40 minutes drive form hear, with lots of fruit trees I will show you how i offset the whole of jazzfanz carbon footprint!
saying "global whatever they call it" is mutually exclusive to caring for the environment i will tell you that is anti-SCIENCE!
The science on climate change is far from settled.
how is the science settled when. everything global warming "scientist: tell you in the future is incompatible with everything we know about what has happened in the past.
but hey whatever man, you are a PLANTIST you wanna kill them by suffocating them! thhhey breathe co2 MAN!
I know. Only 60 days. Can you beleive it? Scandals? Investigations. Failure of one of his major issues he said would be bigly, and great.
I get your point. We may see him differently in a years time, and further down the road. This is just a reaction to being shocked at his first two months.
I get it. Organizations skew the truth. This is about denying that climate change is real, and protecting the planet.
Putting America first is not protecting carbon emissions. That is hurting us.
Making America great is protecting its resources.
I am proud of you for taking some steps not to destroy this earth. Im proud of you Dutch. Blasting the EPA is just stupid though.
Yes, they could be improved, but they provide a vital check and balance of industries.
Climate change is no reason to do global governance. No carbon tax will change it. No redistribution of wealth will change it. The science is screwed, it's prostitute science for political agenda.
Sure, do you lol or whatever. Here's what it would take to be "real science": (1) rational debate (2) No political agenda thrown into the discussion (3) get data.
So far the scientists have failed to take good study of several large factors: (1) Ocean heat balance. (2) Effects on upper atmosphere from space. many more. WE still don't know enough to solidly correlate effects.
Sure there's the whole compromised intellectual elite and press going with the story you believe, but it's just Saul Alinsky tactics to spew the hate for people who recognize the lies and call them out.
I can absolutely believe it. First of all it's him. He's not exactly reserved personality wise. Secondly politics, especially at that level, is scorched earth tactics.
Yes it will be a long 4 years. If he wins re-election then watch out lol.
Red
Well-Known Member
I'm no climate scientist, but my understanding is that the effects of global warming are more pronounced in the Arctic regions. You may recall last year a number of mysterious giant craters were discovered in Siberia. Turns out these were apparently formed by exploding bubbles of methane, a result of the permafrost thawing out due to global warming. 7000 of these methane gas bubbles, all potentially explosive, have now been discovered. Here are a few articles on the subject:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/siberia-permafrost-over-7-000-105109962.html
""That is a self-reinforcing cycle with greenhouse gasses released as permafrost thaws, which causes warming," he said. "This results in more permafrost thaw and causes more warming and on and on. That is something we worry a lot about. Once this cycle gets going it is hard to stop.
"How do we stop it? We control what we can control. Permafrost thaw is driven fundamentally by global warming, which is amplified in the Arctic. How do you control global warming? You control the emissions that are directly under your control – fossil fuel combustion and deforestation."
https://siberiantimes.com/science/c...ound-gas-bubbles-poised-to-explode-in-arctic/
And in the Canadian north:
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/JustOneThing/story?id=8457650
"As the soil thaws, these ancient deposits finally decompose, attacked by microbes, producing carbon dioxide and — if in water — methane. Both are greenhouse gases, but methane is many times more powerful in warming the atmosphere.
Researchers led by the University of Florida's Ted Schuur last year calculated that the top 3 meters (10 feet) of permafrost alone contain more carbon than is currently in the atmosphere.
"It's safe to say the surface permafrost, 3 to 5 meters, is at risk of thawing in the next 100 years," Schuur said by telephone from an Alaska research site. "It can't stay intact."
https://www.yahoo.com/news/siberia-permafrost-over-7-000-105109962.html
""That is a self-reinforcing cycle with greenhouse gasses released as permafrost thaws, which causes warming," he said. "This results in more permafrost thaw and causes more warming and on and on. That is something we worry a lot about. Once this cycle gets going it is hard to stop.
"How do we stop it? We control what we can control. Permafrost thaw is driven fundamentally by global warming, which is amplified in the Arctic. How do you control global warming? You control the emissions that are directly under your control – fossil fuel combustion and deforestation."
https://siberiantimes.com/science/c...ound-gas-bubbles-poised-to-explode-in-arctic/
And in the Canadian north:
https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/JustOneThing/story?id=8457650
"As the soil thaws, these ancient deposits finally decompose, attacked by microbes, producing carbon dioxide and — if in water — methane. Both are greenhouse gases, but methane is many times more powerful in warming the atmosphere.
Researchers led by the University of Florida's Ted Schuur last year calculated that the top 3 meters (10 feet) of permafrost alone contain more carbon than is currently in the atmosphere.
"It's safe to say the surface permafrost, 3 to 5 meters, is at risk of thawing in the next 100 years," Schuur said by telephone from an Alaska research site. "It can't stay intact."
DutchJazzer
Banned
do you beleive that plants have a right to breathe?
then why take their OXYGEN AWAY!
Wow nothing. Putin HATES Clinton.
Also her Syrian policy would absolutely lead to conflict. The US enforcing a no fly zone over Syria? Air space already flooded with Russian jets and Russian anti-air systems like their s-300 and s-400 state of the art systems. Good luck muscling the Russians out without conflict.
That's not even all on her but it is still the reality.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Would the GOP even let him run again if he were to go for reelection?
It sure doesn't seem like he's getting anything done with congress. Basically everything he's done so far has either been destroyed by congressional repubs or will be erased by the next president since executive orders are only temporary. For being such a talked about dealmaker he sure hasn't cut many deals with AMERICANS lately.
Oh I know I know Tax reform and building walls is like gonna totally be different.
It sure doesn't seem like he's getting anything done with congress. Basically everything he's done so far has either been destroyed by congressional repubs or will be erased by the next president since executive orders are only temporary. For being such a talked about dealmaker he sure hasn't cut many deals with AMERICANS lately.
Oh I know I know Tax reform and building walls is like gonna totally be different.