Plumlee has played better and he's less ball dominant. So you can have other guys creating and Plumlee adapting. efficient off ball players are valuable. Ask Golden State. So with Nurkic you have an avg ball hog, with Plumlee an above average off ball player. Plumlee's defense is more versatile and efficient as well. So Plumlee was the trophy in this trade. While this may not be true long term, this trade will never be lobsided the way the Harden trade was...
2016 NBA Season Notes/Info
- Thread starter Stoked
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Plumlee has played better and he's less ball dominant. So you can have other guys creating and Plumlee adapting. efficient off ball players are valuable. Ask Golden State. So with Nurkic you have an avg ball hog, with Plumlee an above average off ball player. Plumlee's defense is more versatile and efficient as well. So Plumlee was the trophy in this trade. While this may not be true long term, this trade will never be lobsided the way the Harden trade was...
Compared to Jokic he is. And I meant it in a hyperbolic sense as in he's a ball dominant player. He needs touches to be efficient, Plumlee doesn't.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nurkiju01.html
Btw he has a 17% career TO ratio, his advanced numbers other than PER are only slightly above average.
Now compare that to Jokic's overall game. Who'd you rather have initiating the offense?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html
fishonjazz
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People be cutting the cord
fishonjazz
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Denver definitely got way below value for nurkic
Yup.
Again, show me where in the NBA bible that said they had to trade for Plumlee?
My point is they rushed to ship Nurkic out and got a bad deal. They shoked. They could have gotten a better deal had they waited for the offseason. Instead they gave a very good player to a conference rival and got below value in return.
Where is written that they find interested teams in the offseason? Look what Utah got back for Kanter for example. Center is a very deep position because of the changing requirements these days. Nurkic does not project to be a good rim protector anytime soon, if ever. They did what they thought was best at the time. And for a disgruntled, overweight and inefficient Nurkic they felt adding a 20-23rd pick while gaining Plumlee back was reasonable. The stats I sent even highlight that it looks worse than it actually is. That his efficiency hasn't changed that much. The situation in Portland is a better fit for Nurkic right now and he's taking advantage of that opportunity.
I just think that long term even with a stagnating Plumlee the relative value for Denver is good because it was pretty obvious that Denver and Nurkic couldn't work out the same way that Kanter and Favors was a bad fit.
No point arguing if you are so steadfast in your view best way is to look at facts:
As it stands, Portland got:
1. A great value in Nurkic.
2. They got Denver's draft pick.
3. They just beat Denver with a dominating performance from Nurkic scoring 33 points and where Plumlee scored 0 points clinching the potential playoff tie break.
If that's not enough to convince you of a lopsided trade then nothing will.
Btp is right and OL being stupid. BTW they traded the Memphis first rounder.
Nurkic's value was sunk.
Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
Nurkic's value was sunk.
Sent from my A0001 using JazzFanz mobile app
1. Denver wanted another contributing big
2. Nurkic was not contributing and he was being a negative on and off court
3. Denver didnt value the extra Memphis 1st rounder all that highly because they have an abundance of young players they are trying to develop
4. Clearly no one else was that high on Nurkic or there would been better offers
Also, it's bad to judge a trade right away. I think everyone knew that Portland won the trade, just like everyone knew OKC won the Kanter trade. It's about getting out of a player who has no interest being on your team and your team has no interest having that player. When teams are put in that scenario with flawed players (either stylistically or emotionally) then that lowers their trade value.
The idea of just shutting down Nurkic and sending him off to do whatever doesnt help his trade value in the least bit. I doubt the offers would really improve in the off-season. Nearly every team has a starting center they like, very few, like Portland really had a need for another pure center. It just drives the market price way down because there is an abundance of good centers in the league and they generally have the least available minutes now that many teams employ some sort of small ball lineup where they slide a 4 to the 5.
2. Nurkic was not contributing and he was being a negative on and off court
3. Denver didnt value the extra Memphis 1st rounder all that highly because they have an abundance of young players they are trying to develop
4. Clearly no one else was that high on Nurkic or there would been better offers
Also, it's bad to judge a trade right away. I think everyone knew that Portland won the trade, just like everyone knew OKC won the Kanter trade. It's about getting out of a player who has no interest being on your team and your team has no interest having that player. When teams are put in that scenario with flawed players (either stylistically or emotionally) then that lowers their trade value.
The idea of just shutting down Nurkic and sending him off to do whatever doesnt help his trade value in the least bit. I doubt the offers would really improve in the off-season. Nearly every team has a starting center they like, very few, like Portland really had a need for another pure center. It just drives the market price way down because there is an abundance of good centers in the league and they generally have the least available minutes now that many teams employ some sort of small ball lineup where they slide a 4 to the 5.
Also, extremely interested to see how Portland handles their cap situation when they have to max out Nurkic. 3 max players plus some bloated contracts for Crabbe/Turner for a team that can barely get the 8th seed every year? Something is going to have to happen to free up cap-space unless their owner likes having a top 5 payroll for a mediocre team.
Game6Conley
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According to a 'front office source' that spoke to theringer.com Jimmy Butler is as good as gone from Chicago when he can opt out (summer of 2019)
Game6Conley
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Chicago would be dumb not to do a firesale and rebuild thru the draft/tanking, obviously we're already starting to see traces of it...Shoulda had the sense to start last summer tbh.
I get that they had to ship out Nurkic as Jokic was clearly the starting Center of the future. I'm not saying that was the issue.
The issue I have, if I was a Nuggets fan, is it should have been a Plumlee & Nurkic straight swap rather than Denver giving Portland the Memphis pick as well. To me that made it a lopsided deal. Portland out-negotiated Denver there. In my opinion there is no way Pumlee = Nurkic + 1st round pick.
Plus the fact that you traded the guy to a conference rival who was also fighting for the 8th seed, clearly making Portland a better team as they were crying out for an inside scorer. I find it hard to believe that Nurki + 1st round pick couldn't get them at least another offer from an Eastern conference team.
The move backfired and Denver could very well be out of the playoffs.
The issue I have, if I was a Nuggets fan, is it should have been a Plumlee & Nurkic straight swap rather than Denver giving Portland the Memphis pick as well. To me that made it a lopsided deal. Portland out-negotiated Denver there. In my opinion there is no way Pumlee = Nurkic + 1st round pick.
Plus the fact that you traded the guy to a conference rival who was also fighting for the 8th seed, clearly making Portland a better team as they were crying out for an inside scorer. I find it hard to believe that Nurki + 1st round pick couldn't get them at least another offer from an Eastern conference team.
The move backfired and Denver could very well be out of the playoffs.
Game6Conley
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Reports have been for a while, since Portland started to stumble, that they're gonna do everything intheir power to cut costs this summer (specifically to unload Evan Turner)
Agreed.
Obviously it seems like BOS won't do a deal with CHI, but do you think Lakers would be interested in sending say the 2nd pick + Ingram for Butler?
Their old GM might entertain that deal, now that Magic is at the helm I'm not sure that he would. I think he'd want to be patient and build from the ground up.
Game6Conley
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Reports have been for a while, since Portland started to stumble that they're gonna do everything in their power to cut costs this summer.. (specifically to unload Evan Turner)
They've got multiple draft picks now, thanks to the Nurkic/Plumlee trade, they can unload some of those contracts with one of the picks.
Game6Conley
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Don't forget they need to re-sign their 21 year old, new starting PF, who's averaged 7.3 rebs (in 23.3mpg) this month. he also threw down this dunk right over Jokic yesterday..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtktMdtxSQ
Portland is 18 - 11 in their last 30 games when he starts.. they're the 8 seed if the season ends today..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agtktMdtxSQ
Portland is 18 - 11 in their last 30 games when he starts.. they're the 8 seed if the season ends today..