Ronnie Nunn says if ball slips out of hand on shot, it's not a travel.

[Gyp Rosetti]

northeast, was your school bus shorter than most?

 

[Archie Moses]

northeast, was your school bus shorter than most?

Seriously. No one has to touch the ball for a player to lose control of it and lose possession.

 

[LogGrad98]

Seriously. No one has to touch the ball for a player to lose control of it and lose possession.

This.

And I have played ball (organized) for many years, I have coached Jr. High a couple years (volunteer, otherwise the kids couldn't play) and I have reffed at various levels including some rather vicious rec-league games. This is not just an NBA rule either, it applies pretty much at any level. It even applied at the Jr. High level, where kids fumbling the ball, botching a pass, and even a kid shooting the ball mostly straight up, then taking 3 steps and catching it when it didn't hit anything happens fairly regularly. Then the only argument was what constituted actually losing control of the ball.

But really just read the rule archie outlined. Pretty straightforward.

 

[northeast]

Okay, maybe this is allowed by convention. However, the rule outlined addresses the exceptions where having possession, losing it , moving , and regaining possession again is NOT a travel. Having the ball slip out of your hands with NO ONE ELSE TOUCHING IT is not one of the exceptions listed. The official wording of the rules implies that a travel should be called.

I think that the confusion comes that there is usually a variation involved. Usually another player touches the ball, or the player never established possession twice, or the player didn't move his pivot foot after the slip, or didn't move with the ball before the slip. However, if none of those details apply, the rules as they are written dictate that there is a traveling violation, which apparently many refs are incorrectly not calling.

The rules say that a player with the ball should lose possession of the ball for swinging his elbows aggressively, even if he doesn't hit anyone. This is is rarely called, but it is what the rule is.

 

[northeast]

Another variation is that, someone can be dribbling, lose possession, and regain it. That is not a travel. That is not the situation I have been talking about. The distinction is that in my hypothetical, the dribbler has intentionally picked up his dribble, before losing the ball, moving his feet, and regaining possession a second time.

The rules as written absolutely do not say that this is not a travel. They imply exactly the opposite by listing exceptions and not including this as an exception. You are not reading them correctly.

I think you all are confusing and lumping all the various scenarios together, when they are different.

 

[northeast]

The rules state that in my scenario the dribbler can not dribble a second time after regaining possession.

However, if he simply picks up the ball, without dribbling again, the rules do not directly address this. It can be argued either way. Apparently, convention is that one can dribble, pick up ones dribble, fumble the ball, move ones feet , and regain possession with no one else touching the ball, without a travel being called. The rules can be argued either way, they are not clear on this. I am surprised at this interpretation.

 

[carolinajazz]

If someone goes up for a shot, ball slips out of hands, player takes multiple steps to go retrieve the ball in the air, it's not a travel?!?!?

Sure looks like a pass to oneself to me.

...you must be referring to that play made by Lebron a few games ago...that initially looked like a steal, but should have been called a travel or palm...because he never actually had control of the ball but moved about 6 feet forward without dribbling the basketball! It would have been called a travel by college refs....but NBA refs let them get away with basically AND1 street ball slop!

 

[carolinajazz]

Apparently, convention is that one can dribble, pick up ones dribble, fumble the ball, move ones feet , and regain possession with no one else touching the ball, without a travel being called. I am surprised at this interpretation.

.....it's a "signature" move in the AND1 League!

 

[carolinajazz]

Using this section of the rules:

Section III-Dribble
a. A player shall not run with the ball without dribbling it.

c. A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.


However, in total, the section suggests that passing to yourself is a violation, even if you do it unintentionally, (losing control of the ball) , because it is not one of the 3 exceptions to the rule in (d).

Section A and C is not a violation in AND1 Ball...and NOT in the NBA! Might be called in college ball. Was ALWAYS called a travel or palming when I played ball....about 35 years ago!

 

[carolinajazz]

....by the way...this is one of my ALL TIME FAVORITE threads! Thanks for starting it Northeast! You da man!