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Roger Stone Outs JFC

babe

Well-Known Member
So anyone here "real" enough to wonder where JFC gets it's "community"?

Here's Roger Stone's analysis:

"with the Deep State in bed with the Progressive Left (which includes many Neocons). David Brock, specifically, and his organization Media Matters have taken in many tens of millions of dollars over the past few years and have built up exactly the kind of infrastructure that is ‘fictionally’ portrayed on the series Homeland. A virtual army of trolls and the complicit support of the Tech Left and Main Stream Media"

https://stonezone.com/article.php?id=782
 
babe, just for the heck of it, I'm going to throw in some paranoia from a different direction...

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...eat-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy

"There are three strands to this story. How the foundations of an authoritarian surveillance state are being laid in the US. How British democracy was subverted through a covert, far-reaching plan of coordination enabled by a US billionaire. And how we are in the midst of a massive land grab for power by billionaires via our data. Data which is being silently amassed, harvested and stored. Whoever owns this data owns the future."
 
BTW, babe, when I say "paranoia", I do not mean to imply "baseless fears". After all, just because one is paranoid does not mean one is not n fact being watched. I do believe the forces that Roger Stone would naturally align with, such as Cambridge Analytical, described at the link I left, very much have the upper hand in the battle for hearts and minds in the West. As to where I stand in this global struggle, my views have centered around the warnings and predictions of the Hopi nation elders many decades ago, I view American history through their world view, and, in more recent years, my own political views have been aligned with the world view and warnings of the Kogi people of the Sierra Madre Mountains of Columbia.
 
JazzFanzCountry?
 
yah, I find it depressing to see the Jazz lose this way. I've always been more willing to criticize Jazz coaching than Jazz players.

But, Red, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind being your friend in real life, even with Jung and sundry aborigines figuring for more than Jesus. Still, most of the time when I see people I figure for being heavily indoctrinated with any of the modern world views passing out terms like "paranoia" or "conspiracy theorist" or probably a lot of other more trendy hatespeech terms which bear the effect of terminating discussions by projecting derision on others, I sorta mourn for the loss of intellect it takes to frame someone else's views in terms of respect even if you must repudiate them.

The best way to make a good point is with good reasons, fitted to the discussion's more important facts.

I find the native traditions of various indigenous peoples as they understood the world before the imposition of Western dogmas more agreeable than I find, say, Alex Jones or Roger Stone or Brietbart. It's the sort of assertion of knowing it all that concerns me on the various political pushes we have going on.

Of course, the natives sorta have complete cosmologies of their own, but it seems generally to leave more room fow genuine wonder.
 
yah, I find it depressing to see the Jazz lose this way. I've always been more willing to criticize Jazz coaching than Jazz players.

But, Red, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mind being your friend in real life, even with Jung and sundry aborigines figuring for more than Jesus. Still, most of the time when I see people I figure for being heavily indoctrinated with any of the modern world views passing out terms like "paranoia" or "conspiracy theorist" or probably a lot of other more trendy hatespeech terms which bear the effect of terminating discussions by projecting derision on others, I sorta mourn for the loss of intellect it takes to frame someone else's views in terms of respect even if you must repudiate them.

The best way to make a good point is with good reasons, fitted to the discussion's more important facts.

I find the native traditions of various indigenous peoples as they understood the world before the imposition of Western dogmas more agreeable than I find, say, Alex Jones or Roger Stone or Brietbart. It's the sort of assertion of knowing it all that concerns me on the various political pushes we have going on.

Of course, the natives sorta have complete cosmologies of their own, but it seems generally to leave more room fow genuine wonder.

We live within a plethora of competing world views, and people are prone to falling under the spell of any number. Everybody's got a story to tell. Everybody's got a narrative. Each narrative a world unto its own. There's a narrative that exposes the Elites and their evil designs, another narrative the shining city on a hill, the sea to shining sea narrative, the God bless America and make her great again narrative, a narrative of manifest destiny. Everybody's got a story to tell, a narrative to give meaning and provide a roadmap to a future. It's a maze of possibilities, and if you know how to listen, you can hear these days a primal scream in the collective soul of a nation. If you're of a certain mind, of a certain narrative, you can feel a psychic pain as deep as any yet known in your life. You can see that the Hopi and the Kogi are right, and we Westerners really do have blinders on our eyes, and a steel trap around our hearts. There's a narrative that understands we have brought a certain condition upon ourselves, centuries in the making. Forged in the conquest of pre civilized humans in every corner and the harnessing of nature's bounty without understanding our place in the scheme of things. The scheme at the heart of a narrative that finds no pleasure in this time and place, this America of 2017.

When I graduated from high school in the mid 60's, I had been completely brainwashed by the sea to shining sea, manifest destiny BS narrative. That's how American history had been taught. I'm not sure, but maybe it still is taught that way in grammar school and high schools. This must be the roots of that other crock narrative of modern times, American exceptionalism. And, you know, it's just the nature of things that history is written and taught from the perspective of the victors. Only in the late 60's did we begin to see minority studies ascend in the social science departments of colleges. Black studies, women studies, Native American studies. Maybe partly in response to the Vietnam War, which, for many on the Left, eroded the fantasy that America was always on the side of the good guys. We always wore the white hats. Part and parcel of the notion that the United States was somehow special. On the far reaches of the American right, patriotism merged with that brand of American Christianity that assumed without question that God himself had ordained that America was a nation apart, intended to lead all humanity into a brighter future. There is no doubt in my mind that that fundamental faith is at the roots of the "make America great" mantra that Trump rode to victory.

And in revisiting the Vietnam Era, the last time divisiveness reached a toxic level in the body politic and social fabric comparable to the present, it's no surprise that the refrain most often used by the Right in those days, and directed against the anti-war movement and so-called counter culture, was not "make America great again", but rather "America, love it or leave it". Those whose patriotism was wedded to the idea America was not only uniquely ordained by God himself, but that the Left and the anti-war movement were those who hated America and gave comfort and support to the enemy. And incubated at the same time was a division present almost from the start, long before divisiveness reached toxic levels. Urban America vs Rural America.

It may be difficult to understand why it should be that way, but there's little question urban areas are where new ideas, new lifestyles, and the mixing of cultures occurs, more so then in conservative rural areas. Mass and instantaneous communication, has erased that distinction to some degree, but it seems there has always been these two Americas, the one liberal and free thinking, and experimental, the other conservative, and bearers of "traditional values". The religious right has always been stronger in rural areas. Rural upstate New York was called the "burnt over district" in the first half of the 19th century as uniquely American forms of conservative Christianity flourished. No surprise that Mormonism first saw expression there in the person and words of Joseph Smith. I'm not Mormon, but it has always fascinated me as the single most uniquely American variant of the Christian faith, one that actually transposed Old Testement narrative to the shores of America itself, creating an alternate history of the New World in the process. Yet, at the same time the American religious Right, apart from the unique Mormon faith, strikes me as a form of the Christian faith more mentally unbalanced then any other exponent of that faith. Give me 1st or 2nd century Christian Gnosticism any day of the week.

We are in a civil war even as I write. It's a culture war, and in politics, a war waged between political parties that is far more toxic for anybody's good. This is not the nation, the "American history as a God ordained fantasy" of my grade school and high school days. And it never really was. History is too often the narrative of the victors, and it can be an eye opener to realize history is always a narrative that can be related just as effectively, and with as much truth, if not more, when viewed from the perspective of the vanquished. The Kogi are the sole surviving culture tied directly to the high civilizations of ancient Mesoamerica. Their near inaccessible isolation protected them. They enforce that isolation to this day. But, in recent years, they chose to speak to whom they call "younger brother", the people of the West, to allow us to see history through their narrative, and they did so solely to warn us of what they see is the environmental havoc wrought by a culture that mistakes it's place in the scheme of things. When one views American history through Kogi eyes, the divisions of Right and Left are almost meaningless compared to that error more fundamental to our culture in general. The inability to understand the place of the human species in the scheme of the natural order. Can I blame the assumption, long held by some, that the Earth and its bounty was intended by God to be for the use of humans? I'm not sure, but the squirrel I feed at the door every day, because her teeth are smashed and she can't crack nuts at all, is my fellow passenger on spaceship Earth, and has as much right to live as I do. And I see that Trump and Pruitt and their fellow destroyers of the regulatory state have a much different idea of life on Earth then I do. A much different narrative of history then the Kogi do. The world that Trump envisions is rooted in Ignorance, the world that the Kogi envision rooted in Wisdom.

It would seem the latter stands not a chance, and the former is driving us to the brink. I don't need or want all those old narratives from grade school anymore. I'm free from all that brainwashing. There are only two outcomes to history's timeline that work for me. In one, mankind, despite its diversity of faiths, races, cultures, etc, finally learns to get along, finally realizes we've only this one fragile world and we need to act as stewards to this beautiful blue ball in space. In the other, by natural or human wrought disaster, civilization collapses, much of humanity dies, and the pockets of pre civilized humans that survive yet, represent our species once more. And life, presently undergoing the 6th great extinction event, one caused by our own actions, rebounds. Back to the garden we go. And maybe new myths develop about the time a great civilization enveloped the world, and in its blindness and ignorance, destroyed itself once more.
 
We live within a plethora of competing world views, and people are prone to falling under the spell of any number. Everybody's got a story to tell. Everybody's got a narrative. Each narrative a world unto its own. There's a narrative that exposes the Elites and their evil designs, another narrative the shining city on a hill, the sea to shining sea narrative, the God bless America and make her great again narrative, a narrative of manifest destiny. Everybody's got a story to tell, a narrative to give meaning and provide a roadmap to a future. It's a maze of possibilities, and if you know how to listen, you can hear these days a primal scream in the collective soul of a nation. If you're of a certain mind, of a certain narrative, you can feel a psychic pain as deep as any yet known in your life. You can see that the Hopi and the Kogi are right, and we Westerners really do have blinders on our eyes, and a steel trap around our hearts. There's a narrative that understands we have brought a certain condition upon ourselves, centuries in the making. Forged in the conquest of pre civilized humans in every corner and the harnessing of nature's bounty without understanding our place in the scheme of things. The scheme at the heart of a narrative that finds no pleasure in this time and place, this America of 2017.

When I graduated from high school in the mid 60's, I had been completely brainwashed by the sea to shining sea, manifest destiny BS narrative. That's how American history had been taught. I'm not sure, but maybe it still is taught that way in grammar school and high schools. This must be the roots of that other crock narrative of modern times, American exceptionalism. And, you know, it's just the nature of things that history is written and taught from the perspective of the victors. Only in the late 60's did we begin to see minority studies ascend in the social science departments of colleges. Black studies, women studies, Native American studies. Maybe partly in response to the Vietnam War, which, for many on the Left, eroded the fantasy that America was always on the side of the good guys. We always wore the white hats. Part and parcel of the notion that the United States was somehow special. On the far reaches of the American right, patriotism merged with that brand of American Christianity that assumed without question that God himself had ordained that America was a nation apart, intended to lead all humanity into a brighter future. There is no doubt in my mind that that fundamental faith is at the roots of the "make America great" mantra that Trump rode to victory.

And in revisiting the Vietnam Era, the last time divisiveness reached a toxic level in the body politic and social fabric comparable to the present, it's no surprise that the refrain most often used by the Right in those days, and directed against the anti-war movement and so-called counter culture, was not "make America great again", but rather "America, love it or leave it". Those whose patriotism was wedded to the idea America was not only uniquely ordained by God himself, but that the Left and the anti-war movement were those who hated America and gave comfort and support to the enemy. And incubated at the same time was a division present almost from the start, long before divisiveness reached toxic levels. Urban America vs Rural America.

It may be difficult to understand why it should be that way, but there's little question urban areas are where new ideas, new lifestyles, and the mixing of cultures occurs, more so then in conservative rural areas. Mass and instantaneous communication, has erased that distinction to some degree, but it seems there has always been these two Americas, the one liberal and free thinking, and experimental, the other conservative, and bearers of "traditional values". The religious right has always been stronger in rural areas. Rural upstate New York was called the "burnt over district" in the first half of the 19th century as uniquely American forms of conservative Christianity flourished. No surprise that Mormonism first saw expression there in the person and words of Joseph Smith. I'm not Mormon, but it has always fascinated me as the single most uniquely American variant of the Christian faith, one that actually transposed Old Testement narrative to the shores of America itself, creating an alternate history of the New World in the process. Yet, at the same time the American religious Right, apart from the unique Mormon faith, strikes me as a form of the Christian faith more mentally unbalanced then any other exponent of that faith. Give me 1st or 2nd century Christian Gnosticism any day of the week.

We are in a civil war even as I write. It's a culture war, and in politics, a war waged between political parties that is far more toxic for anybody's good. This is not the nation, the "American history as a God ordained fantasy" of my grade school and high school days. And it never really was. History is too often the narrative of the victors, and it can be an eye opener to realize history is always a narrative that can be related just as effectively, and with as much truth, if not more, when viewed from the perspective of the vanquished. The Kogi are the sole surviving culture tied directly to the high civilizations of ancient Mesoamerica. Their near inaccessible isolation protected them. They enforce that isolation to this day. But, in recent years, they chose to speak to whom they call "younger brother", the people of the West, to allow us to see history through their narrative, and they did so solely to warn us of what they see is the environmental havoc wrought by a culture that mistakes it's place in the scheme of things. When one views American history through Kogi eyes, the divisions of Right and Left are almost meaningless compared to that error more fundamental to our culture in general. The inability to understand the place of the human species in the scheme of the natural order. Can I blame the assumption, long held by some, that the Earth and its bounty was intended by God to be for the use of humans? I'm not sure, but the squirrel I feed at the door every day, because her teeth are smashed and she can't crack nuts at all, is my fellow passenger on spaceship Earth, and has as much right to live as I do. And I see that Trump and Pruitt and their fellow destroyers of the regulatory state have a much different idea of life on Earth then I do. A much different narrative of history then the Kogi do. The world that Trump envisions is rooted in Ignorance, the world that the Kogi envision rooted in Wisdom.

It would seem the latter stands not a chance, and the former is driving us to the brink. I don't need or want all those old narratives from grade school anymore. I'm free from all that brainwashing. There are only two outcomes to history's timeline that work for me. In one, mankind, despite its diversity of faiths, races, cultures, etc, finally learns to get along, finally realizes we've only this one fragile world and we need to act as stewards to this beautiful blue ball in space. In the other, by natural or human wrought disaster, civilization collapses, much of humanity dies, and the pockets of pre civilized humans that survive yet, represent our species once more. And life, presently undergoing the 6th great extinction event, one caused by our own actions, rebounds. Back to the garden we go. And maybe new myths develop about the time a great civilization enveloped the world, and in its blindness and ignorance, destroyed itself once more.

Wait a dadgum minute. That puts you at around 70. I thought I was the only old fart in here.

Wait a nother dadgum minute. How y'all know America was not ordained by God Himself? All I ever hear is military this, war that, pull out of here, spend less there... what I ask of all you is how in the bloody hell do you not look around the world an see we live in the most peaceful period ever? All cause of American influence both democratically an militarily. We are single handed creating world peace one step at a time. In fact, what is it Miss America wishes for? World peace an a end to hunger. America is doing both. If anything was ordained by a God than I cannot think of any "higher purpose" then that.
 
Wait a dadgum minute. That puts you at around 70. I thought I was the only old fart in here.

Wait a nother dadgum minute. How y'all know America was not ordained by God Himself? All I ever hear is military this, war that, pull out of here, spend less there... what I ask of all you is how in the bloody hell do you not look around the world an see we live in the most peaceful period ever? All cause of American influence both democratically an militarily. We are single handed creating world peace one step at a time. In fact, what is it Miss America wishes for? World peace an a end to hunger. America is doing both. If anything was ordained by a God than I cannot think of any "higher purpose" then that.

Aren't you in your mid to late 30's...I mean in real life, of course.
 
Red, in review please consider the visions of Abraham, the Covenant people. Israel had a few hundred years of pastoral peace before Solomon ruined it all with the idol of the Great State. The wisest man ever, my eye.....

People with a law that was based on the idea of virtue, on the existence of a Supreme beneficient Being who embodied every personal virtue.

archaic civilizations were not really all so simple and unsullied, any more than our Modern world is really all that much of a City on the Hill. The basic facts of mortal existence preclude the possibilities of people being just "perfect" in any sense or in set of views, and about the only possible outcome of life is learning as one goes along.

Do the good you know today, review it all, and try to do better tomorrow. I'm not sure how much we can really benefit from a Law deemed eternal or absolute, but in it's simplest presentation at least it provides some notions that plausibly could be considered better than nothing.....

I think Jesus is the greatest philosopher, and mostly I think he taught personal conscience, personal conviction, and personal integrity. Wouldn't pass on the tactics of a political agenda pusher. Rebuked his own disciples for overzealousness in opposing his enemies. Healed the centurion whose ear was lopped off by his disciples in the Garden of Gethsemane.

I can see how the Hopi and other folks living "in tune with the world" see the Western society as madness. I think Jesus would too.
 
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