In defense of the Jimmer

[NAOS]

^ I thought this crack addict quit the board. What did I miss?

 

[write4u]

There is such a thing as reverse racism, and I think OP has a point.

 

[NAOS]

^ I thought this crack head quit the board. What did I miss?

 

[jope]

https://www.draftexpress.com/article/Jimmer-Fredette-Video-Breakdown-3676/

a nice video-breakdown of strengths and weaknesses of the jimbo from draftexpress.com


get to see firsthand his long range, ability to hit contested jumpers over and over,

as well as his man blowing past him


personally, i think his defensive lapses in the video dont look much different than devin harris' in all honesty

which is safe to say neither are good defenders, but that hasn't stopped devin from having a long career in the nba, also neither are toted for their passing, but are satisfactory passers

not saying the players are similar, but just pointing out that it is not entirely implausible for jimmer to find a nice little niche and have a career in the nba, defensive issues or not.

 

[BENTLEY]

Hey, I like write4u. I like SubOdeon too. And there was another guy I like who was in southern California. He had extremely long and articulate posts, which drove tons of people crazy. Because they were long and articulate. Who was that?

I don't know who anybody is anymore since the crash. Except Thriller (poster formerly known as OGatino).

 

[Jazz4ever]

tHAT POST is borderline racist and dwill coming out of college played against superior comp and played with other good players. THis a joke, Jimmer even if black doesnt play defense and is short. Short wing span also. Khalid el amin was black and not a pro and won a title and w as twice player in college then jimmer . Being short and slow will hurt you in nba

Stephen Curry's Wingspan is only 6'3", and Deron's is 6'6". I remember reading Jimmer's was 6'5" although can't find the source again with google. Point is, he is fine.

 

[NAOS]

Stephen Curry's Wingspan is only 6'3", and Deron's is 6'6". I remember reading Jimmer's was 6'5" although can't find the source again with google. Point is, he is fine.

I predict that when the official measurements come in Jimmer will be known as THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING MAN. Book your tickets today.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Jimmer is terrible at finishing around the rim, thats my biggest complaint about him.

Also, wtf is wrong with his face in this pic?

The games I watched in the Tourney he was terrible at it. Draftexpress agrees with me on their video evaluation.

Jimmer did get worse toward the end of the year at finishing around the rim for a few reasons that will not happen in the NBA. The ref's started to allow much more contact on Jimmer in the second half of the season for whatever reasons they had. Jimmer would be bumped by 2+ guys on the way in for a shot, and there would be no call. If a foul was called in that situation he would have been at the FT line, and the shot would not count against his FG% unless he made it. You could tell this was starting to get to Jimmer as he started to bark at the refs sometimes. It was for the most part a double standard because other players, sometimes even on BYU, would get bumped much less on a drive and they would get a call. I think that affected his play down the stretch, but he still only had a few bad games finishing around the rim... other games he was unstoppable there. I bet they picked as many bad examples of whatever angle they wanted, as good examples people use when they put up highlights. Unless you see every shot in a game, you don't see the whole picture... and even then you don't see the flow of the game unless you watch the whole game.

About the picture, his face looks funny because of the G-force involved. You know he is moving fast because he has the ball in his hands.

Oh, this is for Kicky..... I heart Jimmer, and I hope he is drafted #1 by the Jazz, and I hope he stays on the Jazz for 20 years even if the last 5 he plays in double knee braces.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jimmer did get worse toward the end of the year at finishing around the rim for a few reasons that will not happen in the NBA. The ref's started to allow much more contact on Jimmer in the second half of the season for whatever reasons they had. Jimmer would be bumped by 2+ guys on the way in for a shot, and there would be no call. If a foul was called in that situation he would have been at the FT line, and the shot would not count against his FG% unless he made it. You could tell this was starting to get to Jimmer as he started to bark at the refs sometimes. It was for the most part a double standard because other players, sometimes even on BYU, would get bumped much less on a drive and they would get a call. I think that affected his play down the stretch, but he still only had a few bad games finishing around the rim... other games he was unstoppable there. I bet they picked as many bad examples of whatever angle they wanted, as good examples people use when they put up highlights. Unless you see every shot in a game, you don't see the whole picture... and even then you don't see the flow of the game unless you watch the whole game.

About the picture, his face looks funny because of the G-force involved. You know he is moving fast because he has the ball in his hands.

Oh, this is for Kicky..... I heart Jimmer, and I hope he is drafted #1 by the Jazz, and I hope he stays on the Jazz for 20 years even if the last 5 he plays in double knee braces.

DX uses video examples from game outside the Tourney also.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I don't think the OP should be annoyed at the things people are saying about Jimmeny because, assuming he is correct, the result will be that the Jazz are going to steal a franchise player at 12. I don't think the OP is correct, but since the Jazz are going to take JF anyway, I hope I'm wrong.

BTW, although I don't like the pick from a basketball standpoint from a marketing standpoint it's a no-brainer.

Now this last statement makes no sense to me. The BEST marketing for the Jazz, or pretty much any team, is to win. Win consistently and you'll put butts in the seats, regardless of who's on the team. Lose consistently, and people will stay away, again regardless of who's on the team.

In the end, if Jimmer doesn't make the Jazz a better team and help them win and/or or if he sits on the bench and does not play/contribute, the marketing impact on the Jazz over the medium to long term will be nil.

Whatever ST bump the Jazz get from the BYU and LDS faithful from drafting Jimmer will dissipate quickly if they don't win.

Plus, I don't get the assumption that the Jazz, as a matter of course, are going to draft Jimmer. Is there any basis for this, outside of wishful thinking or some kind of conventional wisdom?

 

[Jazz Spazz]

DX uses video examples from game outside the Tourney also.

I know, but I can pull bits and pieces I want from anyone's game to prove what I want to prove.
I could pull "highlights" out of Dwight Howard's game to show how he's a terrible defender as an extreme example of what I am saying.
You don't get the full picture unless you see a whole game... or most of someone's season to really see what they can do.

I'm not saying he is not bad defensively mostly due to not trying or caring.... I'm just saying don't base your full opinion on some hightlights someone pulled out to try to prove their opinion is right. You don't look at all of Jimmer's... or anyones best highlights and automatically accept he will be the best player there ever was. It is obvious there is more to it than that small look into someone's game.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Now this last statement makes no sense to me. The BEST marketing for the Jazz, or pretty much any team, is to win. Win consistently and you'll put butts in the seats, regardless of who's on the team. Lose consistently, and people will stay away, again regardless of who's on the team.

In the end, if Jimmer doesn't make the Jazz a better team and help them win and/or or if he sits on the bench and does not play/contribute, the marketing impact on the Jazz over the medium to long term will be nil.

Whatever ST bump the Jazz get from the BYU and LDS faithful from drafting Jimmer will dissipate quickly if they don't win.

Plus, I don't get the assumption that the Jazz, as a matter of course, are going to draft Jimmer. Is there any basis for this, outside of wishful thinking or some kind of conventional wisdom?

If that statement makes no sense to you then I'm certain you've never been in marketing. It's very simple. While your ideas make a lot of sense in the long term, the short term revenue concerns are at least as important to the team. You and I are not the only ones that the following idea has occurred to:

The Jazz have just begun a rebuilding project and they are not as likely to win games over the next few years as they might have been in the past. Since I enjoy going to games when they win and I'm not so happy about paying to attend games that they lose, maybe I'll save my money and not buy season tickets this year.

A significant percentage of the fans who might have canceled or not considered buying for the previous reasons are also excited about the prospect of Jimmeny in the NBA and on the Jazz in particular. They have more than just a passing interest in his success. They honestly feel they have a stake in how well he does. He's proven his ability to make them feel good about who they are. The team would sell thousands of additional tickets in the coming rebuilding year as a result of having Jimmeny on the team, and it would result in millions of dollars in revenue. It's not a stretch to say that he'd have many times the economic value in his first season if he plays for the Jazz versus if he plays for any other team. The Jazz definitely realize that and most of the rest of the league probably does, too.

If they get lucky and he really does turn out to be a Steve Nash they will be thrilled. If they get unlucky and he can hardly get off the bench in a short career they still get an enormous repayment on their investment in a season where they desperately need it. On top of all this, a large percentage of their fans would be greatly disapointed if the Jazz passed on him, so drafting someone other than Jimmeny with their second pick would probably have a significant negative economic effect. Meanwhile, the number of fans that are following the draft with the intensity and knowledge of those participating in the draft discussions on this board is a tiny fraction of the market. If the Jazz piss a few of those sorts of eggheads off by drafting a guy they don't agree is the best player available it will have almost no negative economic impact on the team. IMO, this is as close to a marketing no-brainer as it gets.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

If that statement makes no sense to you then I'm certain you've never been in marketing. It's very simple. While your ideas make a lot of sense in the long term, the short term revenue concerns are at least as important to the team. You and I are not the only ones that the following idea has occurred to:

The Jazz have just begun a rebuilding project and they are not as likely to win games over the next few years as they might have been in the past. Since I enjoy going to games when they win and I'm not so happy about paying to attend games that they lose, maybe I'll save my money and not buy season tickets this year.

A significant percentage of the fans who might have canceled or not considered buying for the previous reasons are also excited about the prospect of Jimmeny in the NBA and on the Jazz in particular. They have more than just a passing interest in his success. They honestly feel they have a stake in how well he does. He's proven his ability to make them feel good about who they are. The team would sell thousands of additional tickets in the coming rebuilding year as a result of having Jimmeny on the team, and it would result in millions of dollars in revenue. It's not a stretch to say that he'd have many times the economic value in his first season if he plays for the Jazz versus if he plays for any other team. The Jazz definitely realize that and most of the rest of the league probably does, too.

If they get lucky and he really does turn out to be a Steve Nash they will be thrilled. If they get unlucky and he can hardly get off the bench in a short career they still get an enormous repayment on their investment in a season where they desperately need it. On top of all this, a large percentage of their fans would be greatly disapointed if the Jazz passed on him, so drafting someone other than Jimmeny with their second pick would probably have a significant negative economic effect. Meanwhile, the number of fans that are following the draft with the intensity and knowledge of those participating in the draft discussions on this board is a tiny fraction of the market. If the Jazz piss a few of those sorts of eggheads off by drafting a guy they don't agree is the best player available it will have almost no negative economic impact on the team. IMO, this is as close to a marketing no-brainer as it gets.

I understand marketing just fine, thanks. I just disagree with your analysis and conclusions. I disagree that drafting Jimmer will give the Jazz that much of a ST bump; it will probably be there, I just don't think it will be that big. Plus, if Jimmer doesn't play or contribute (a likely scenario if he is drafted), the ST bump will be even smaller. I don't think there's a huge market out there of people willing to pay to see Jimmer ride the pine. Over the Medium to long term, any ST effect will be swamped, if the Jazz don't win. Plus one must consider the 'opportunity cost' of drafting Jimmer; perhaps someone else might pay off less in ST but more in LT by doing more to help Jazz win, or who may actually help create even more buzz than Jimmer. Not sure who this may be offhand.

It's an honest disagreement. You may be right and I'm totally off base, but I think you've overestimated by a large degree the ST financial windfall of Jimmer.

I am on the fence about Jimmer. I think he may well be good, but may also be a dog. I think it's about 50-50, which for a late lottery or mid first round pick is not so bad. If the Jazz think he's the BPA, that's fine with me. The Jazz brass thought that about Hayward much to the chagrin of people here, but now that's not looking quite so bad. We'll see.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I understand marketing just fine, thanks. I just disagree with your analysis and conclusions. I disagree that drafting Jimmer will give the Jazz that much of a ST bump; it will probably be there, I just don't think it will be that big. Plus, if Jimmer doesn't play or contribute (a likely scenario if he is drafted), the ST bump will be even smaller. I don't think there's a huge market out there of people willing to pay to see Jimmer ride the pine. Over the Medium to long term, any ST effect will be swamped, if the Jazz don't win. Plus one must consider the 'opportunity cost' of drafting Jimmer; perhaps someone else might pay off less in ST but more in LT by doing more to help Jazz win, or who may actually help create even more buzz than Jimmer. Not sure who this may be offhand.

It's an honest disagreement. You may be right and I'm totally off base, but I think you've overestimated by a large degree the ST financial windfall of Jimmer.

I am on the fence about Jimmer. I think he may well be good, but may also be a dog. I think it's about 50-50, which for a late lottery or mid first round pick is not so bad. If the Jazz think he's the BPA, that's fine with me. The Jazz brass thought that about Hayward much to the chagrin of people here, but now that's not looking quite so bad. We'll see.

I know of half a dozen people in my immediate neighborhood who will buy season tickets if the Jazz darft Ferdetter. If he ends up riding the pine the Jazz will still have their money.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I know of half a dozen people in my immediate neighborhood who will buy season tickets if the Jazz darft Ferdetter. If he ends up riding the pine the Jazz will still have their money.

With due respect, I'd be a bit more convinced if we were talking about something other than anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of 6 people. I'd bet there are 6 people out there who'd be so pissed if the Jazz draft Jimmer they wouldn't buy season tickets. Maybe. I get what you're saying, and I concede you may be right. I'm skeptical, though. I prefer the LT solution to the ST band aid, assuming the choice comes down to this (which it may very well not). But as I say, I'm not opposed to drafting Jimmer with second pick; he may surprise a lot of us.

 

[fishonjazz]

With due respect, I'd be a bit more convinced if we were talking about something other than anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of 6 people. I'd bet there are 6 people out there who'd be so pissed if the Jazz draft Jimmer they wouldn't buy season tickets. Maybe. I get what you're saying, and I concede you may be right. I'm skeptical, though. I prefer the LT solution to the ST band aid, assuming the choice comes down to this (which it may very well not). But as I say, I'm not opposed to drafting Jimmer with second pick; he may surprise a lot of us.

I would give you positive rep if i knew how. I like the fact that you have the ability to see both sides of an arguement and even admit the possibility of being wrong. Very rare qualities on this forum. I myself am a huge byu fan and watched every game that was televised this year start to finish and was consistently amazed by the Jimmer. However I am of the opinion that he wont be very good in the nba. Maybe I am just looking too much at his size and skin color. He got it done against almost every team and every type of defender that he played against in college so I dont really understand my thinking that he wont make it as a starter in the nba. He is already one of the best shooters in the nba. I am worried that his size, and lack of defense will hurt him to much.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

I would give you positive rep if i knew how. I like the fact that you have the ability to see both sides of an arguement and even admit the possibility of being wrong. Very rare qualities on this forum. I myself am a huge byu fan and watched every game that was televised this year start to finish and was consistently amazed by the Jimmer. However I am of the opinion that he wont be very good in the nba. Maybe I am just looking too much at his size and skin color. He got it done against almost every team and every type of defender that he played against in college so I dont really understand my thinking that he wont make it as a starter in the nba. He is already one of the best shooters in the nba. I am worried that his size, and lack of defense will hurt him to much.

You can rep him by clicking the star in the bottom left of his post. I will too. I think he's misinterpereting my comment about six people, but his argument is clearly laid out. I still think that the Jazz cannot afford not to make this pick due to short term marketing concerns.

 

[fishonjazz]

Joe you make good points about the jazz organization maybe drafting jimmer for the financial benefits and you may be right. I just hope as a fan that they take the player with the best chance to improve the team. I definately wouldn't be upset if they draft jimmer since I am a byu fan and i really like jimmer. I just hope they dont pick him with short term financial gain being the main factor.

 

[LogGrad98]

I agree with many of the above (I will have to spread some rep around). I am still not convinced that it will have that great an effect on the short-term revenues for the team anyway. I do not think it has been proven that 1) Jimmer is all that popular in the state beyond the BYU faithful and that 2) Given that #1 is true, that this will correlate directly to increased revenue for the Jazz.

I frankly question how his skills will translate to the NBA where elite level guards will defend him like a fat kid on a twinkie, and his inability to defend will find him tired out and less effective offensively anyway. He is an enigma. Might be the best thing to hit the NBA since Jordan or whatever, or may be just the next bust that someone wasted a lottery pick on. I sure hope we don't use either of our lottery picks on him.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I know, but I can pull bits and pieces I want from anyone's game to prove what I want to prove.
I could pull "highlights" out of Dwight Howard's game to show how he's a terrible defender as an extreme example of what I am saying.
You don't get the full picture unless you see a whole game... or most of someone's season to really see what they can do.

I'm not saying he is not bad defensively mostly due to not trying or caring.... I'm just saying don't base your full opinion on some hightlights someone pulled out to try to prove their opinion is right. You don't look at all of Jimmer's... or anyones best highlights and automatically accept he will be the best player there ever was. It is obvious there is more to it than that small look into someone's game.

Well, Draftexpress is a pretty legitimate website. I dont think they are just compiling "highlights" showing he is a bad defender. Those dudes do their homework.