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Following potential 2017 draftees...

What I'm afraid about with Ingles' contract is that he turns into another Crabbe/Harkless/Turner/Leuer/Leonard/Deng/etc... And the problem won't be that the guy is a bad player, none of those are bad per se, but they are contracts their team cannot afford to give and/or arguably they don't deserve.
 
stitches said:
If Thornwell or Hart don't make it to 42, Sterling Brown is another interesting 3 and D prospect:

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sterling-Brown-70090/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njNJXv31JAA
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Very impressive shooting numbers (45% on threes through all four years) but why so few attempts? 1.3, 1.3, 1.9 and finally 3.9 3PTA/game.

How's his defense? I like his ball handling and intensity at least from the highlights.
 
stitches said:
What I'm afraid about with Ingles' contract is that he turns into another Crabbe/Harkless/Turner/Leuer/Leonard/Deng/etc... And the problem won't be that the guy is a bad player, none of those are bad per se, but they are contracts their team cannot afford to give and/or arguably they don't deserve.
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Ingles is staying put 4/40ish... book it. He's not the kind of guy who will get stupid money. Crabbe got lucky that literally every team had max space and bottom feeders had no one to take their cash. The space is much more constricted this year and Ingles isn't the right age to pay more expecting some upside.
 
infection said:
Very impressive shooting numbers (45% on threes through all four years) but why so few attempts? 1.3, 1.3, 1.9 and finally 3.9 3PTA/game.

How's his defense? I like his ball handling and intensity at least from the highlights.
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Supposedly his defense is great... can't say I've watched him. Lots of 3 and D types this draft. May as well get a couple of them in and hope one pans out.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ingles is staying put 4/40ish... book it. He's not the kind of guy who will get stupid money. Crabbe got lucky that literally every team had max space and bottom feeders had no one to take their cash. The space is much more constricted this year and Ingles isn't the right age to pay more expecting some upside.
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I'm not sure I'd give him that either. I'm thinking I'm putting the limit to about the MLE. In a career year at age 29 he was a 7/3/3 player. Sure he's a great teammate and he's a great shooter, sure he defended well, but damn, am I the only one who thinks giving 10-12% of our capspace for 7/3/3 player who might never have a season as good as this one because he's entering his 30s(and because he's never ever shot this well before) is too much? And I love Ingles. And I want him back... I just don't think you pay 10+M for this type of player.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Supposedly his defense is great... can't say I've watched him. Lots of 3 and D types this draft. May as well get a couple of them in and hope one pans out.
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All I'd like to see is do this off-season is add toughness, nastiness, some rebounding at the backup big spots and maybe more perimeter shooting. If he can bring two of those things, bring him in.
 
stitches said:
I'm not sure I'd give him that either. I'm thinking I'm putting the limit to about the MLE. In a career year at age 29 he was a 7/3/3 player. Sure he's a great teammate and he's a great shooter, sure he defended well, but damn, am I the only one who thinks giving 10-12% of our capspace for 7/3/3 player who might never have a season as good as this one because he's entering his 30s(and because he's never ever shot this well before) is too much? And I love Ingles. And I want him back... I just don't think you pay 10+M for this type of player.
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I certainly have some questions about that. I do think the big cap crunch will start next year where salaries will swing to below what would otherwise be market value. This year, however, I think we'll see the crunch on lower level guys. People like Mosgov and Dellavedova won't be getting that kind of money this year, so this includes Ingles.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ingles is staying put 4/40ish... book it. He's not the kind of guy who will get stupid money. Crabbe got lucky that literally every team had max space and bottom feeders had no one to take their cash. The space is much more constricted this year and Ingles isn't the right age to pay more expecting some upside.
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I would rather give him a 3-year contract.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I agree with Cy to some extent. Back in the day there was a term used called poison pill contracts. team would either front load or back load a contract to make sure that the other team wouldnt match or if they day they were screwed with the contract.
 
stitches said:
I'm not sure I'd give him that either. I'm thinking I'm putting the limit to about the MLE. In a career year at age 29 he was a 7/3/3 player. Sure he's a great teammate and he's a great shooter, sure he defended well, but damn, am I the only one who thinks giving 10-12% of our capspace for 7/3/3 player who might never have a season as good as this one because he's entering his 30s(and because he's never ever shot this well before) is too much? And I love Ingles. And I want him back... I just don't think you pay 10+M for this type of player.
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The MLE is like 4/36, so basically 4/40. He fits and fills multiple roles... 10% of your cap for either your worst starter or best bench fill in guy is fair. The raw numbers don't tell the whole story look at RPM and on/offs. He plays great defense and is a ball mover... uses few possessions buy uses them efficiently. He's also Hayward's best friend on the team and is a great locker room guy. Over pay by a $1m or $2 a year if you need to... he's worth it to us.
 
stitches said:
I'm not sure I'd give him that either. I'm thinking I'm putting the limit to about the MLE. In a career year at age 29 he was a 7/3/3 player. Sure he's a great teammate and he's a great shooter, sure he defended well, but damn, am I the only one who thinks giving 10-12% of our capspace for 7/3/3 player who might never have a season as good as this one because he's entering his 30s(and because he's never ever shot this well before) is too much? And I love Ingles. And I want him back... I just don't think you pay 10+M for this type of player.
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I don't think he gets more than the MLE, so we could probably offer him just a hair above the MLE with home team raises and he'd be happy. I'm not worried about age as much with him... not as much wear and tear.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The MLE is like 4/36, so basically 4/40. He fits and fills multiple roles... 10% of your cap for either your worst starter or best bench fill in guy is fair. The raw numbers don't tell the whole story look at RPM and on/offs. He plays great defense and is a ball mover... uses few possessions buy uses them efficiently. He's also Hayward's best friend on the team and is a great locker room guy. Over pay by a $1m or $2 a year if you need to... he's worth it to us.
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Again, keep in mind that this is his best season, at age 29. And his shooting was an outlier for his career. What if he regresses to 2016 Ingles? Are we still happy giving him 10-12m? A lot of those contracts that teams give to RFAs are with the vision of them improving because most of those are young players who are still not in their prime. Ingles is on the other end of the spectrum - you expect him to regress and you expect him to slow down as he's entering his 30s.
 
stitches said:
Again, keep in mind that this is his best season, at age 29. And his shooting was an outlier for his career. What if he regresses to 2016 Ingles? Are we still happy giving him 10-12m? A lot of those contracts that teams give to RFAs are with the vision of them improving because most of those are young players who are still not in their prime. Ingles is on the other end of the spectrum - you expect him to regress and you expect him to slow down as he's entering his 30s.
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He's 40% on his career and trending up... I don't see his shooting regressing. I think you can bank on a 40% shooter. He uses smarts and length much more than athleticism so I'm not really worried about an athletic decline. You really have to look past the raw numbers on him.

#13th in the league in RPM for SFs this year. 31st last year. Clearly figured some things out on defense this year. Wing depth is important he can play multiple positions and operate as a de facto point guard. I think he helps us win more than Hood and I don't think its that close.

Plus there is no slowing down slo mo... he can't go slower.
 
Crocodile Dante said:
I agree with Cy to some extent. Back in the day there was a term used called poison pill contracts. team would either front load or back load a contract to make sure that the other team wouldnt match or if they day they were screwed with the contract.
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That is not what Cy said. He said they do it solely to **** with them.


Sent from my iPhone using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I'm perfectly fine paying Ingles 10 mill per year. His 3 and D is important to this team. And it was on an elite level last year. 44.1% from 3 which was 2nd in the NBA. 36th in defensive rpm and 13th in rpm overall for small forwards, 19th in the entire NBA in defensive rating. He's a key glue guy on our roster. He's worth it. Even if his numbers regress a little.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's 40% on his career and trending up... I don't see his shooting regressing. I think you can bank on a 40% shooter. He uses smarts and length much more than athleticism so I'm not really worried about an athletic decline. You really have to look past the raw numbers on him.

#13th in the league in RPM for SFs this year. 31st last year. Clearly figured some things out on defense this year. Wing depth is important he can play multiple positions and operate as a de facto point guard. I think he helps us win more than Hood and I don't think its that close.

Plus there is no slowing down slo mo... he can't go slower.
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:D

About his 3p shooting:

2012 - 32.2%
2013 - 39.2%
2014 - 36.6%
^---------------those are from Euro 3p line
2015 - 35.6%
2016 - 38.6%
2017 - 44.1%

He's never shot above 40% in his career. The rest I agree with. His positional versatility and his smarts are very valuable for an NBA team.
 
SCS said:
My first round mock

1. Celtics- Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
2. Lakers- Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
3. 76ers- Josh Jackson, SF, Kansas
4. Suns- Jayson Tatum, F, Duke
5. Kings- De'Aaron Fox, PG, Kentucky
6. Magic- Dennis Smith Jr, PG, NC State
7. Timberwolves- Zach Collins, C, Gonzaga
8. Knicks- Frank Ntilikina, CG, Strasbourg
9. Mavericks- Jonathan Isaac, PF, Florida State
10. Kings- Lauri Markkanen, PF, Arizona
11. Hornets- Malik Monk, SG, Kentucky
12. Pistons- Donovan Mitchell, CG, Louisville
13. Nuggets- OG Anunoby, F, Indiana
14. Heat- Harry Giles, PF, Duke
15. Blazers- Ike Anigbogu, C, UCLA
16. Bulls- Isaiah Hartenstein, C, Zalgiris
17. Bucks- Jonathan Jeanne, C, Nancy
18. Pacers- Luke Kennard, SG, Duke
19. Hawks- TJ Leaf, PF, UCLA
20. Blazers- Rodions Kurucs, SF, Barcelona 2
21. Thunder- Justin Jackson, SF, North Carolina
22. Nets- Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Raptors- John Collins, PF, Wake Forest
24. Jazz- Frank Jackson, CG, Duke
25. Magic- Jarrett Allen, C, Texas
26. Blazers- Ivan Rabb, PF, Cal
27. Nets- Terrance Ferguson, SG, Adelaide
28. Lakers- Bam Adebayo, C, Kentucky
29. Spurs- Anzejs Pasecniks, C, Gran Canaria
30. Jazz- DJ Wilson, PF, Michigan
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Any thoughts on this?
 
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