12 year old gay Mormon at church

[franklin]

Then he gets up in conference and talks about paying tithing first, before rent, before food, etc and guilts a single mom making $25,000 a year into paying $2,509 in tithing, which essentially boils down to almost 100% (if not higher) of their disposable income.

That bothers me too. It's supposed to be based on increase. If you're living day-to-day you don't have any increase and from what I gather, tithing and the Bishop's Storehouse was originally meant to help those in need, not be a burden on them.

 

[franklin]

Both my current job and my previous job had health insurance benefits for retirees. For that matter my job before that (U.S. Government), if I had been in a permanent position, would also have included that--see here: https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insu...nefits-change-now-that-Im-retired/#url=Health. "As a Federal retiree you pay the same premiums and receive the same benefits as an active Federal employee." I think the DMBA retirement benefit is similar to that (couldn't find it in a quick search), although it wouldn't surprise me if there were some increase to the premiums.

I've heard BYU's retirement package is pretty good. There used to be a sick leave saving program with the state where you could bank hours to pay for health insurance in retirement but it no longer exists.

The Fed premium rates are pretty darn high so it's not like they are providing free healthcare.

 

[Rubashov]

I've heard BYU's retirement package is pretty good. There used to be a sick leave saving program with the state where you could bank hours to pay for health insurance in retirement but it no longer exists.

We get a couple of hundred hours of sick leave a year, (think its about 180-90 depending on hours worked) there are staff who've worked here that have 3000 plus hours of sick leave left when they retire and you don't get paid out on them. Makes me sick.

 

[colton]

That is sad part about basically all religions. You accept what church teaches you and not what you would think as individual. You are smart man colton, could certainly do better than "what church teaches".

How do you know I haven't thought about it lots as an individual? I have.

 

[MVP]

How do you know I haven't thought about it lots as an individual? I have.

I hope you did. So what happens if your mind would go against the teachings of the church? Do you challenge the teachings or suppress your inner scream as "satanic" temptation?

 

[colton]

I hope you did. So what happens if your mind would go against the teachings of the church? Do you challenge the teachings or suppress your inner scream as "satanic" temptation?

False dichotomy. And it depends too much on the specific context for me to give a general rule.

 

[colton]

Colton is very good at what he does:

Saying a lot of words to beat around the bush on topics.

I didn't beat around any bush. You, on the other hand, refused to answer any of my questions from post #47 in the thread.

 

[colton]

Then he gets up in conference and talks about paying tithing first, before rent, before food, etc and guilts a single mom making $25,000 a year into paying $2,509 in tithing, which essentially boils down to almost 100% (if not higher) of their disposable income.

Just to pick out one point from this post, do you believe that tithing is a commandment from God or not? If so, then what's the problem? Shouldn't he teach all members of the church to follow all commandments, not just the well-to-do ones?

(For what it's worth, my wife and I were very poor for about 6 years while we were in school, with an income undoubtedly below the poverty line. We paid tithing on our income and made it work. And we knew that if we became really desperate the church could help us out with e.g. food support from the bishop's storehouse or even with rent payments. That's not to say that all poor people are in the same situation we were in; among other things we also had some family support and we knew that there was a finish line upon graduation. But still...)

 

[♪alt13]

Just to pick out one point from this post, do you believe that tithing is a commandment from God or not? If so, then what's the problem? Shouldn't he teach all members of the church to follow all commandments, not just the well-to-do ones?

(For what it's worth, my wife and I were very poor for about 6 years while we were in school, with an income undoubtedly below the poverty line. We paid tithing on our income and made it work. And we knew that if we became really desperate the church could help us out with e.g. food support from the bishop's storehouse or even with rent payments. That's not to say that all poor people are in the same situation we were in; among other things we also had some family support and we knew that there was a finish line upon graduation. But still...)

I grew up mormon. I do remember a story about a poor widow with children giving her last coin to tithing and some stuff about how she was the most righteous.

There are 2 ways to look at this story. Everyone should pay their share or everyone should be willing to sacrifice what they can. IIRC 10% was a guideline not orders from god's accountant.

Is not a person who contributes 5% of their meager income, income that may cost them a great deal of discomfort to part with, not sacrificing more than a person who parts with 10% of their substantial income, income they can part with and remain more comfortable than the other person even if that person contributed nothing?

 

[MVP]

False dichotomy. And it depends too much on the specific context for me to give a general rule.

I am just curious how one's mind work. When I started "rebel" against catholic church teachings and doctrines I just could not stand it anymore as it made no more sense. Like if I wanted to eat meat on good Friday or Christmas Eve, why not? Why would I need to say prayers every night or go for mass on Sunday if I feel like going fishing instead. Eventually I think conflict between Church teachings and your inner self leads to either abandoning church or religion altogether or accepting this conflict as a "challenge from above" and suppressing it.

 

[addictionary]

Are you talking about someone who just considers themselves gay (such as the child in the OP) or someone who is actually in an active homosexual relationship? I accept the LDS church's teaching that homosexual feelings are not inherently sinful, but homosexual behavior is. So I don't have a problem at all with the first.

If it's the second, are you then asking how would I react to someone who was active in a gay relationship but still wanted to be part of the LDS church? That is a more challenging situation. I'd like to think that in general I'd be supportive of the desire to attend and partcipate, but if I were their bishop I'd still follow church guidelines about practicing homosexuals not being able to receive temple recommends or hold callings. However, I also recognize those are policies rather than doctrines and would be open to the possibility of seeing them changed at some point in the future.

Thank you for the open response.

I think accepting someone's homosexual relationship comes with the package when you accept someone's homosexuality and don't blame her/him a queer or try to heal her/him.

 

[bigb]

You probably also know this, but in case someone else reading this doesn't--the GAs are paid with income from church businesses and not from the tithing donations. From Pres. Hinckley, http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...umps-four-new-documents-about-LDS-Church.html, "I should like to add, parenthetically for your information that the living allowances given the General Authorities, which are very modest in comparison with executive compensation in industry and the professions, come from this business income and not from the tithing of the people."

Ahh, I remember that now.

It doesn't change the way I feel about it.

 

[bigb]

Not that I'm cynical or anything, but there is no way the women's organizations are treated the same way as male GA's. Why would they need to pay the women when they have husbands to support them? They have been forced to use more inclusive language now in talking about the women's organizations, but I would be terribly surprised if that has changed anything about any stipends.

Like I said, I have no idea how much, if anything, she was compensated. I would hope that the church either gave her a car or paid for hers as she was basically a 24/7/365 employee. I would hope the church paid for her gas to drive downtown from Murray everyday where she wasn't having to do that. Her husband's income also suffered as he traveled with her A LOT. We talked to him once (trying to get some issued fixed in his house) while he was in the middle of a 10 or 12 day Europe trip with his wife. They visited like 9 or 10 countries in that trip, sitting in over a dozen meetings with the local leaders. He missed work like that regularly. I would hope the church helped with the loss of income, but I have no idea.

 

[LogGrad98]

redacted



edit:

Hi

 

[fishonjazz]

It's very simple:

The FT GA's (first quorum of the seventy and higher) live very, very, very well. Better than most.

I think part of what colton was saying is, why shouldn't they live better than most? They are very well educated hard working people who are the best in their field.
Seems like they should be paid better than most.

 

[♪alt13]

I think part of what colton was saying is, why shouldn't they live better than most? They are very well educated hard working people who are the best in their field.
Seems like they should be paid better than most.

Is that a direct QUOTE from Jesus?

 

[fishonjazz]

Is that a direct QUOTE from Jesus?

I doubt it

 

[Jack Strop]

I think part of what colton was saying is, why shouldn't they live better than most? They are very well educated hard working people who are the best in their field.
Seems like they should be paid better than most.

Best in their professional fields, generally just "connected" religiously. Christ called fishermen to be his apostles. When was the last time a humble, poor man was called to be an apostle in the LDS Church?

And if they choose to be GA's, they should be retired from their professions and/or be in a position to work part-time or live off investment earnings. Of course, the LDS church should pay for T&E for GA's and other leaders they ask to travel. But one of the tenets of the LDS church - and something that has been used for DECADES as one of the reason's their church is Christ's true church is that their clergy is unpaid. Doesn't matter where the funds come from. The clergy at the top level is PAID, just like any other church. Hey, here's an idea...why not call GA's for 10-15 years. Retired or able to pay for their own living expenses only. Then they're still lucid for pretty much all their time. And they don't require salaries.

LDS Church can then use business income for missionary and building funds, etc.

 

[Gameface]

Best in their professional fields, generally just "connected" religiously. Christ called fishermen to be his apostles. When was the last time a humble, poor man was called to be an apostle in the LDS Church?

And if they choose to be GA's, they should be retired from their professions and/or be in a position to work part-time or live off investment earnings. Of course, the LDS church should pay for T&E for GA's and other leaders they ask to travel. But one of the tenets of the LDS church - and something that has been used for DECADES as one of the reason's their church is Christ's true church is that their clergy is unpaid. Doesn't matter where the funds come from. The clergy at the top level is PAID, just like any other church. Hey, here's an idea...why not call GA's for 10-15 years. Retired or able to pay for their own living expenses only. Then they're still lucid for pretty much all their time. And they don't require salaries.

LDS Church can then use business income for missionary and building funds, etc.

Agreed, anyone traveling for the church and performing service for the church should have their travel and expenses paid... Hold on, someone is knocking at my door... oh, never mind, just a couple LDS missionaries who traveled for the church and are performing services for the church, carry on...

 

[Elizah Huge]

I know one thing that really pushed me away while growing up in the Mormon church was going on a mission.

I think it would be an amazing experience if you wanted to do it and have heard nothing but great things from people who have actually gone on missions.

The problem is when the leaders (bishop, stake president, etc.) try to force it on you. It's just not what I wanted to do but yet every Sunday I was literally told "you have to do it" or "God wants you to". I don't understand that thinking at all and think it should be solely up to the person. They shouldn't peer pressure young men into going on missions.

The stake president was the absolute worst about this. He would tell me he would buy me a suit if I decided I wanted to go and constantly encourage me to. Still to this day he has tried coming to my work and house to talk to me. Mind you I haven't been to church in two years.

This kind of pushiness doesn't work and I know personally a few other people who grew up in the church who were pushed away because of this same type of behavior. I always felt like telling them "I understand you went on a mission but that doesn't mean I have to". I truly feel sorry for the kids who's parents have made a mission a foregone conclusion for them and give them no choice on the matter. I've heard stories about kids who since they were little their parents told them they will go on a mission like it's what they should dream about doing.

I'm truly thankful for my parents and thankful that they didn't do that to me and let us make our own decisions. Another main thing that pushes people away is the three hour church services. In my own personal experience I would dread going to church because of how long it was. I didn't even learn anything in the second or third hour most of the time. I think if they did an hour for sacrament and another half hour for the groups to meet and discuss the activities for the upcoming week and things of that nature it would be perfect.

I actually enjoyed sacrament and definitely got the most of that than anything. I just think it's too much at times. From a three hour church service to seminary to mutual on Wednesday to home teachers and missionaries coming to your home to missionaries calling and texting you, its just a lot.

That's just my view on the discussion and thought some of you would enjoy hearing from someone with personal experience.

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