I agree it is. But it's a trap they'd be smart to avoid. Instead of going "that is a disaster!" Say "we appreciate his efforts to improve x, but we feel that y is better and here's why".
They're becoming the Rs under Obama. Don't do it lol
Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
I agree it is. But it's a trap they'd be smart to avoid. Instead of going "that is a disaster!" Say "we appreciate his efforts to improve x, but we feel that y is better and here's why".
They're becoming the Rs under Obama. Don't do it lol
Red
Well-Known Member
The Washington Post has published an investigative report today, detailing, as the title states "Obama's Secret Struggle to Punish Russia for Putin's Election Assault". As far as is known, Trump has not altered these actions and they remain in place:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...utin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.ee4b874e2046
"Early last August, an envelope with extraordinary handling restrictions arrived at the White House. Sent by courier from the CIA, it carried “eyes only” instructions that its contents be shown to just four people: President Barack Obama and three senior aides.
Inside was an intelligence bombshell, a report drawn from sourcing deep inside the Russian government that detailed Russian President Vladi*mir Putin’s direct involvement in a cyber campaign to disrupt and discredit the U.S. presidential race.
But it went further. The intelligence captured Putin’s specific instructions on the operation’s audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump.
At that point, the outlines of the Russian assault on the U.S. election were increasingly apparent. Hackers with ties to Russian intelligence services had been rummaging through Democratic Party computer networks, as well as some Republican systems, for more than a year. In July, the FBI had opened an investigation of contacts between Russian officials and Trump associates. And on July 22, nearly 20,000 emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee were dumped online by WikiLeaks......
......In political terms, Russia’s interference was the crime of the century, an unprecedented and largely successful destabilizing attack on American democracy. It was a case that took almost no time to solve, traced to the Kremlin through cyber-forensics and intelligence on Putin’s involvement. And yet, because of the divergent ways Obama and Trump have handled the matter, Moscow appears unlikely to face proportionate consequences".
Here's is a summary, for those who can't get past the Washington Post paywall:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-network-response-kremlin-hacking/422818001/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...utin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.ee4b874e2046
"Early last August, an envelope with extraordinary handling restrictions arrived at the White House. Sent by courier from the CIA, it carried “eyes only” instructions that its contents be shown to just four people: President Barack Obama and three senior aides.
Inside was an intelligence bombshell, a report drawn from sourcing deep inside the Russian government that detailed Russian President Vladi*mir Putin’s direct involvement in a cyber campaign to disrupt and discredit the U.S. presidential race.
But it went further. The intelligence captured Putin’s specific instructions on the operation’s audacious objectives — defeat or at least damage the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, and help elect her opponent, Donald Trump.
At that point, the outlines of the Russian assault on the U.S. election were increasingly apparent. Hackers with ties to Russian intelligence services had been rummaging through Democratic Party computer networks, as well as some Republican systems, for more than a year. In July, the FBI had opened an investigation of contacts between Russian officials and Trump associates. And on July 22, nearly 20,000 emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee were dumped online by WikiLeaks......
......In political terms, Russia’s interference was the crime of the century, an unprecedented and largely successful destabilizing attack on American democracy. It was a case that took almost no time to solve, traced to the Kremlin through cyber-forensics and intelligence on Putin’s involvement. And yet, because of the divergent ways Obama and Trump have handled the matter, Moscow appears unlikely to face proportionate consequences".
Here's is a summary, for those who can't get past the Washington Post paywall:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...n-network-response-kremlin-hacking/422818001/
DutchJazzer
Banned
also, the polls showed that ossof would win! all polls except one had him winning!
yet ossof lost. so there is something wrong with polling! so aproval ratings and such are also broken
yet ossof lost. so there is something wrong with polling! so aproval ratings and such are also broken
Smart dem? A oxymoron
olden_undercover
Well-Known Member
This post is an oxymoron.
DutchJazzer
Banned
buddy don't call him a oxymoron, you are the oxymoron
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I love how president Obama has used his Jedi mind tricks to provoke Dump into admitting everything that liberals have been saying for months. Namely:
1. Dump admits that Russia interfered with the election, despite months of his denying it. He seems to confirm what Comey testified, strengthening Comey's testimony. And is now blaming obama for not stopping Putin, essentially admitting that he wouldn't have won without Russia's help. This only strengthens Mueller's case imo.
2. Dump admitted that the health care bill was mean. He seemed angry that Obama used that term to describe the senate bill. He claimed that he used it first, before obama. Essentially undercutting the Trumpcare bill currently up for vote in the senate. Lol
1. Dump admits that Russia interfered with the election, despite months of his denying it. He seems to confirm what Comey testified, strengthening Comey's testimony. And is now blaming obama for not stopping Putin, essentially admitting that he wouldn't have won without Russia's help. This only strengthens Mueller's case imo.
2. Dump admitted that the health care bill was mean. He seemed angry that Obama used that term to describe the senate bill. He claimed that he used it first, before obama. Essentially undercutting the Trumpcare bill currently up for vote in the senate. Lol
None of that strengthens anything as none of it prove collusion. It does not matter if he benefited from it if he didn't assist in it. Proving Russia hacked the election will not overturn it. Only proving that the President assisted in hacking the election will result in action against him.
Yes, he's dumb.
I am against the GOP health push as well. Wrong way to go about it.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I disagree. I think all of these contradictory tweets and interviews only hurts his credibility and strengthens the case for collusion and obstruction of justice.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
I can't find the post but Stoked you seemed to question whether the massive gains democrats have made in these special elections in deep red districts will continue in the midterms. I'm curious, why? Why would trump's unpopularity influence the special elections but not influence the more moderate and balanced districts?
Because they are 0-5. So they didn't really gain anything. Well maybe a moral victory but that and .50 will buy you a cup of coffee (as the saying goes).
Will that play over into purple areas? Possibly and I'd say probably in some cases.
In GA specifically the Dems threw everything they had at it. Breaking all outside funding records for a special election and they lost.
So I do not really count anything until it happens. Long time between now and the elections in 2018. Every loss now complicates their path then.
Also the GA special election trended the wrong way for Ds. They lost ground from the general election.
only among the rational-thinking from both sides of the political spectrum
unfortunately, I feel there is an element of our population that applauds his audacity and will continue to do so - - for them, it's a sign that he won't easily bend to the will of those who are more thoughtful and circumspect, and they see that as something to cheer about.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Not saying that it's going to happen but...
They have over a year to convince the right that the Democrats plan to eat their babies. Also, by that time Democrats will be in the final stage of grief, Acceptance.
Republicans show up. Goth makes a comeback. We can only hope that no babies get eaten.
The Presidents credibility means didly in this. Nothing. Same with rational thinking. Him being all over the map on twitter and making a fool of himself (he has that down to an art) does not amount to collusion and obstruction. It is entirely possible that he did but until you can prove it...
To quote the movie Training Day. "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove!"
And if he continues to get "wins" (Gorsuch, travel ban...) than the Rs will start to rally to him. IMO.
2018 is along way off and the Ds failed to hit on anything so far while the iron was hot.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
The travel ban wasn't a win. Do you really think a 9-0 decision which rules that Americans with travel visas coming from "banned countries" cannot be detained/stopped is a win?
Why don't you want to focus on his lack of approval rating and how democrats have made major gains in even deep red districts? Focus on that ball first.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
Wait a second, how can you claim that democrats "failed" to strike when the iron was hot? They made major gains in the reddest districts in the house. Literally, these have been republican strongholds for over 20 years.
Please explain how losing 15-25 pts in 6 months isn't alarming for republicans sitting in far more moderate and competitive districts?
Please explain how losing 15-25 pts in 6 months isn't alarming for republicans sitting in far more moderate and competitive districts?
To start with I put win in " for a reason. That is how it will play out among the right to galvanize his base. That ruling also halted all immigrants without a direct connection to the US (marriage, kids, employment...)
I have not dodged his approval rating. It sucks. Horrible. He is tanking hard, making terrible decisions and looks like a fool all over the internet. and the Ds have not picked up a single seat.
They failed to gain a single seat. That's not a hard concept! We did great! we out polled our average! Good for them. The seat is in R hands.
Also "they made gains" is like an almost in horseshoes. Until they hit those gains mean nothing.
Why do we keep going over this? I have said the same thing a half dozen times now. It is not complicated. You don't agree, obviously, and that is ok. But my stance hasn't changed.
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The Thriller
Well-Known Member
How does it not mean anything when we are talking about the big picture?
Those 5 seats were never expected to go blue let alone be competitive. Those seats were never counted on to flip the power of the house since they've been red for decades.
You're not letting the data drive your thoughts here Stoked. And IMO, I sincerely question whether you're being this obtuse by accident.
Look at the data. As a researcher, I challenge my students to put their preconceived notions away and look at the data. 6 months ago, these deep red seats went republican by 15-25 pts. Today? They are competitve. There is clearly a strong positive relationship between Trump's unpopularity and Democrats gaining pts.
So what happens in the more competitive districts? Do you foresee republicans in competitive districts gaining or losing ground due to Trump's unpopularity (if it stays in the low 30s/40s)?
Cmon. Be honest now.