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Bin Laden is dead

The Thriller said:
Gotta love this dandy from troutbum:



Actually, not.

I just figured I said all that needed to be said. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I wonder if you would have a different opinion had you actually gotten off your fat *** and served in the military. Or if the only remains of your "madame" was some charred fingers at ground zero. Too easy to criticize your fellow Americans while playing poker and "talking" about war.

It's real easy to play call of duty and call yourself a hard ***. Or to act all tough on the Internet while selling insurance, *** wipe.

But it's completely wrong to judge the American nation after this. Many people had their lives ruined by this man. Most military men have been influenced in one way or another. While all Americans have felt his influence.

With all the other **** that's going on with this country, it's about ****ing time we have something to get excited about. Our intelligence can still find answers, our military can still accomplish something, and the war on terror might not be a losing war (for us).

So yeah, that's it buddy. I guess you really destroyed me. Had my *** handed to me....

Home%20of%20the%20Brave%20Firefighters%20Flag.jpg
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Well, I guess you showed me. I mean, I was leaning toward non-destruction, but that picture of Ground Zero really put it over the edge. Well done. I'll just go back to hating America and selling insurance. Forgive the intrusion.
 
TroutBum said:
I listened to a little Rush the other day and laughed when he used the term, "Regime" when talking about Obama. Clearly, MillHopper is all aboard the dumbass train.
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You're a boring troll, and while I'm at it you're on my **** list for ruining my very first use of the ignore feature. I read this thread twice, and it was head and shoulders better the second time.
 
franklin said:
You're a boring troll, and while I'm at it you're on my **** list for ruining my very first use of the ignore feature. I read this thread twice, and it was head and shoulders better the second time.
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Dude, this actually hurts a little.
 
TroutBum said:
Well, I guess you showed me. I mean, I was leaning toward non-destruction, but that picture of Ground Zero really put it over the edge. Well done. I'll just go back to hating America and selling insurance. Forgive the intrusion.
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Yeah, and you surely beat my *** with creative zingers like these:
Your stupidity knows no bounds

Bummer, better luck next time, *** face.

p.s. please don't ever have children.

Funny how you disapeared from the Bin Laden thread after your *** was handed to you. Well done, tool.
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Good job *** wipe.
 
Millsapa said:
It is best not to make a rebuttal to Marcus when you are responding to me.
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You may want to go back and look at the chronology. You waded in to respond to my statements to Marcus. Sorry, you don't get to dictate the strand of my thoughts.

These are the key parts of our debate, and it appears as though you kicked your own *** in it:
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I don't think we're really debating because you're not really participating in anything but talking points. It's entirely unclear from your advocacy if you believe torture is a good idea or not.

If you really think there's an inconsistency in saying it's a better story if we didn't have to resort to torture to get Bin Laden and saying that the timeline is inconsistent with the notion that torture was the key factor in getting Bin Laden then I don't know what to tell you. It's obvious you're seeing what you want to see as per usual.


See how you claim we got him without resorting to torture but then go on to say in your "reasoned argument" that we resorted to torture but it didn't work because waterboarding occurred before we got the information.
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I think you're confused between the statement that torture has never occurred ever (which would be moronic) and the statement that torture wasn't a significant or the key factor in killing Bin Laden. I'm saying the latter; you're trying to attribute to me the former.
 
Millsapa said:
That is liberal nonsense. The only people that lose are the terrorists.
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As predicted, there's liberal as an epithet.

We must agree to disagree on the issue of whether or not torture is ever justified. Although I think this gives the lie to your statements about the role of the state and its relation to the individual. If saying that torture is wrong makes me a liberal then I'll wear the label proudly.

I'll take it one step farther and associate myself with the most Christ-like political speech I've ever seen, which was uttered by a Socialist.

Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth. I said then, and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.
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The politics of otherization and the creation of "states of exception" in which all humans have rights except the ones we call our enemies does damage to the souls of us all and should be avoided and condemned. And yes, this is as close to religious as I get.
 
Sirkickyass said:
I'll take it one step farther and associate myself with the most Christ-like political speech I've ever seen, which was uttered by a Socialist.
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Hellenized Christianity or Kickyass Christianity is all the same. It's all in the eye of the interpreter... which gets to the point of the foundation of this nation, IMO. But that's a discussion this board doesn't like.

Say, fellas, let us nail some ears to some wood right naw.
 
BRIAN WILLIAMS: Can you confirm that it was as a result of water boarding that we learned what we needed to learn to go after Bin Laden?

LEON PANETTA: Brian, in the intelligence business you work from a lot of sources of information and that was true here… It's a little difficult to say it was due just to one source of information that we got… I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.

WILLIAMS: Turned around the other way, are you denying that waterboarding was in part among the tactics used to extract the intelligence that led to this successful mission?

PANETTA: No, I think some of the detainees clearly were, you know, they used these enhanced interrogation techniques against some of these detainees. But I'm also saying that, you know, the debate about whether we would have gotten the same information through other approaches I think is always going to be an open question.

WILLIAMS: So, finer point, one final time, enhanced interrogation techniques -- which has always been kind of a handy euphemism in these post-9/11 years -- that includes waterboarding?

PANETTA: That's correct.
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Nobody in the Obama administration is going to admit specifically that water boarding procured the necessary intel to nail OBL. The most telling sign to me is that nobody has flat out denied that it worked, including the director of the CIA. Regardless, whether they got the necessary intel during an "enhanced interrogation session" or if an "enhanced session" simply softened detainees for later "non-enhanced sessions", the water boarding was effective.
 
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franklin said:
spitting warm coals
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Someones cheerios got pissed in this week.

Terrorist? Weenie whistle celebrating on the streets?

...but I do commend your attempt at spitting the hot fire. Good day sir.
 
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interessting. I wont comment in this thread ebcause of all the neg rep i will receive.
btu a congratulations is kinda in order.

congrats america
 
So they are officially going with no photo because they claim the big bad Muslims will get riled up ? Can't say I'm surprised. I wonder if they ever say the same thing when they are debating blowing ****/people up in Middle Eastern countries? You think that might rile them up? Cowards. The posed photo of them in the war room is more offensive.
 
Duck Rodgers said:
So they are officially going with no photo because they claim the big bad Muslims will get riled up ? Can't say I'm surprised. I wonder if they ever say the same thing when they are debating blowing ****/people up in Middle Eastern countries? You think that might rile them up? Cowards. The posed photo of them in the war room is more offensive.
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I was totally serious about wanting more information regarding the links between JBS and the Illuminati. That could lead to the greatest dinner conversation of my lifetime. Cough up the goods please!
 
I could care less about seeing any photos. All I care about is the fact that the guy is either dead or (for you conspiracy nutjobs) in US custody getting waterboarded somewhere. It's not like if he was still out there they would have made this the event it has become.
 
Marcus said:
Nobody in the Obama administration is going to admit specifically that water boarding procured the necessary intel to nail OBL. The most telling sign to me is that nobody has flat out denied that it worked, including the director of the CIA.
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Given that Panetta wasn't director of the CIA during the water-boarding period I think it's entirely possible he doesn't actually know what intel was acquired which way. He's probably mostly just getting the results rather than the blow-by-blow because of his position. He's not in a fantastic position to universally deny something that didn't occur on his watch and being wrong would certainly be embarassing.

However, you're engaging in the logically questionable tactic of implying something based on a non-denial. Certainly we've backed way off your original stance of "Waterboarding of KSM specifically directly led to the attack." Given that the facts do not support that view, that's a strategic retreat on your part.

Regardless, whether they got the necessary intel during an "enhanced interrogation session" or if an "enhanced session" simply softened detainees for later "non-enhanced sessions", the water boarding was effective.
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That's assuming the conclusion. A position that every piece of information collected post-waterboarding, whether or not it was obtained during waterboarding and whether or not it increased the proportion of truthful information, can be attributed to waterboarding is intellectually dishonest and inherently non-falsifiable.

Why do you feel the need to defend torture? This is truly what I don't understand. It's one thing to say that it happened and we might have gotten something from it. It's quite another to actively and rabidly try to capitalize on an intelligence success as a prescription for more torture.
 
Ostertag>Duncan said:
Someones cheerios got pissed in this week.

Terrorist? Weenie whistle celebrating on the streets?

...but I do commend your attempt at spitting the hot fire. Good day sir.
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I have no idea what you're talking about. Have you been watching Barney a lot lately?

Sirkickyass said:
I was totally serious about wanting more information regarding the links between JBS and the Illuminati. That could lead to the greatest dinner conversation of my lifetime. Cough up the goods please!
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PM sent. It was the Mormon Birchers who killed JFK, says this undercover FBI operative.
 
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