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All-Time NBA Draft Round 2: Hekate vs. White Chocolate

Which team would win in a 7-game series?

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
Elizah Huge

Elizah Huge

Respect All, Fear None
Contributor
2024 Award Winner
Team Hekate:

PG - Oscar Robertson / Tim Hardaway
SG - Kobe Bryant / Steve Kerr
SF - Rick Barry / Joe Johnson
PF - Kevin Garnett / Kevin Love
C - Bill Walton / Yao Ming

Team White Chocolate:

PG - John Stockton / Baron Davis
SG - Paul Pierce / Andre Iguodala
SF - Scottie Pippen / Carmelo Anthony
PF - Charles Barkley / Derrick Coleman
C - Alonzo Mourning / Marcus Camby

Hekate's Case:

Oscar Robertson, Kobe Bryant, Rick Barry

Oscar is one of the most complete players of all-time. He could shoot, pull-up, pass, rebound, defend. He has the size and the speed to belong and dominate in today's game. There is reason, through 1960-65 his teams had historically great Ortg.

It's just a deadly, ultra competitive backcourt with Barry and Kobe. You don't know who is going to score on you next possession and you don't know how they are going to bring it to you. Kobe and Barry has combined 21 FTA between them.

With Walton and Garnett in the front court, the possibilities are endless.

Walton and Garnett

They complement each other offensively and defensively. While Bill can anchor the defense, Garnett can roam and help. Walton has 2*NBA All-Defensive team in a career plagued by injuries and Garnett has 12xNBA All-Defensive teams. Offensively, they are the perfect inside-outside combo. They are both incredible passers, Walton is probably the best passing big man of all-time. Imagine Walton who started fastbreaks with ultimate speed passing to a young Kevin Garnett.

Bench

I think Yao is a great bench player in this thing and an offensive weapon anytime a team goes small. With Love and Johnson, Kerr and Hardaway. He has enough space to destroy whoever is guarding the rim. I can also go with Garnett at center and Love or Johnson at 4 to get better spacing for my starting line-up. What I love about my bench is that they give me possibilities to stagger minutes and play different styles of basketball.

White Chocolate's Case:

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The NBA's all-time leader in assists and steals, Stockton led the NBA in assists per game for nine consecutive seasons between 1987 and 1996. No other player in NBA history has led the NBA in assists per game for nine seasons total. Stockton would still be the NBA's all-time assist leader even if he had not played his final six seasons.
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In the first season after Michael Jordan's retirement, Pippen finished third in MVP voting and led the Bulls to 55 wins, just two fewer victories than in the previous season with Jordan.
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In the past 50 seasons, Barkley and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are the only players to average 25 points, 12 rebounds and 5 assists in a single season. Barkley did so on his way to winning the MVP in 1992-93 with the Suns.
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SPACING

Stockton shot 40.7%, 41.6%, 42.2%, 42.2%, 42.9%, 44.9%, and 46.2% from 3 in seven different seasons.

Pierce shot 40.4% on 6.3 attempts, 41.2% on 4.3 attempts and 41.4% on 3.7 attempts in his three best years from 3.

Pippen shot 37.4% on 5.2 attempts a game in his best year from 3.

Carmelo shot 40.2% on 5.4 attempts a game in his best year from 3.

Iguodala shot 39.4% on 3.1 attempts a game in his all-star season.

Nobody on Hekate's starting line-up has ever shot higher than 38.3% from 3 in a single season and nobody besides Kobe has even cracked higher than 37% from 3 in a single season.
 
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I chose Hekate but this is a brutally close match-up. WC has Stockton, Barkley, Pippen (three top 20-25 players maybe) and Pierce for God's sake.
 
Barkley Pippen Stockton was too much of my favor. Hekate's Big O-Tim-Kobe-Garnett gathering can get him the qualification tho.
 
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easy wc , go look at prime Charles barkley stats.
 
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Hekate rolls again (as he should through the entire tourney). Has 4 players arguably better than WC's best and they fit together great.
 
Eminence said:
Hekate rolls again (as he should through the entire tourney). Has 4 players arguably better than WC's best and they fit together great.
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How exactly does his team fit together great? There is no spacing or 3-pt shooting and they're all extremely high usage players.

Kobe's top-3 scoring seasons:

34.7% from 3 on 6.5 attempts - 38.7 USG%
34.4% from 3 on 5.2 attempts - 33.6 USG%
38.3% from 3 on 4.0 attempts - 32.9 USG%

Garnett's MVP season he had a 29.6 USG%.

Barkley's MVP season he had a 26.9 USG%.

Pippen's usage percentage during the Bulls six championship years was never higher than 24.6%.

In comparison, Barry had a higher usage percentage than both in 5 out of the 7 years they kept the stat for him and he never shot higher than 33% from 3.

Stockton never had a usage percentage higher than 20.9% in his 19 seasons.

These are just straight facts. His stars are all extremely high usage and his starters have zero spacing with no 3pt shooting.
 
Passing is a form of spacing and you can't sag of any of my players or double team them. They all they their own gravity. Sag off of Kobe and Barry, give them the smallest room to attack and you are going to foul out. They were excellent at getting to the free throw line. And outside of Pippen there isn't a player on your team that can slow them down.

You also underestimate Barry's shooting. In playoffs he once shot %52 on 4.5 attempts and next year he shot %38 3.4 attempsts.

There is Garnett shooting close to %50 on mid-range. The entire Portland offense ran through Walton. I think I have too many angles WC's team can't handle.

And my team is superior defensively.
 
Usage rate argument? Most of these player were the best in their team. If you are going to do an All-Time draft, of course it's going to be high. My players aren't blackholes. I have the best passing big in the game. One of the first point forwards ever. A PF who averaged more than 5 assists 6 time in his career and Kobe being selfish and not passing is overstated af.
 
Hekate said:
Passing is a form of spacing and you can't sag of any of my players or double team them. They all they their own gravity. Sag off of Kobe and Barry, give them the smallest room to attack and you are going to foul out. They were excellent at getting to the free throw line. And outside of Pippen there isn't a player on your team that can slow them down.

You also underestimate Barry's shooting. In playoffs he once shot %52 on 4.5 attempts and next year he shot %38 3.4 attempsts.

There is Garnett shooting close to %50 on mid-range. The entire Portland offense ran through Walton. I think I have too many angles WC's team can't handle.

And my team is superior defensively.
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Really?

"In the playoffs he once shot 52%" lol how far did you have to dig to find that? We're using playoff stats now? Plus, that was over a span of 6 games total.

Your team is not superior defensively either. How do you figure that? Stockton/Pippen/Mourning are all elite defenders and I have Iguodala and Camby off the bench.
 
Hekate said:
Usage rate argument? Most of these player were the best in their team. If you are going to do an All-Time draft, of course it's going to be high. My players aren't blackholes. I have the best passing big in the game. One of the first point forwards ever. A PF who averaged more than 5 assists 6 time in his career and Kobe being selfish and not passing is overstated af.
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Why don't my players have high usage rates then? You have a lot of players who need the ball.

I have the only PF ever to average 25, 12, and 5 over a whole season.

You're really reaching.
 
I'm underestimating Barry's 3pt-shooting yet he's never shot over 33% in his career.

But..but..but he did shoot 52% from 3 in one playoff series!
 
White Chocolate said:
How exactly does his team fit together great? There is no spacing or 3-pt shooting and they're all extremely high usage players.

Kobe's top-3 scoring seasons:

34.7% from 3 on 6.5 attempts - 38.7 USG%
34.4% from 3 on 5.2 attempts - 33.6 USG%
38.3% from 3 on 4.0 attempts - 32.9 USG%

Garnett's MVP season he had a 29.6 USG%.

Barkley's MVP season he had a 26.9 USG%.

Pippen's usage percentage during the Bulls six championship years was never higher than 24.6%.

In comparison, Barry had a higher usage percentage than both in 5 out of the 7 years they kept the stat for him and he never shot higher than 33% from 3.

Stockton never had a usage percentage higher than 20.9% in his 19 seasons.

These are just straight facts. His stars are all extremely high usage and his starters have zero spacing with no 3pt shooting.
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All of Oscar/Kobe/Barry/KG are solid shooters, you don't need to stretch to the 3pt line to see the benefits of players who can shoot (elite passers at multiple positions - Oscar/KG/Walton - certainly helps as well). USG% only sort of reflects the idea you're using it for, it only shows how much a player shoots it. Initiators like CP3/Nash/Stockton have relatively low rates while they absolutely need the ball in their hands to be highly influential on offense. KG was highly capable of being a huge impact player while shooting it less through his spectacular defense alone (see '08, where he was nearing the end of his physical prime, but was still absolutely fantastic), maybe the most versatile player of alltime. Kind of a super-Pippen really.
 
Hekate's best players are guys who played in the 60's against **** talent. They would be shell-shocked by WC's guys.
 
Eminence said:
All of Oscar/Kobe/Barry/KG are solid shooters, you don't need to stretch to the 3pt line to see the benefits of players who can shoot (elite passers at multiple positions - Oscar/KG/Walton - certainly helps as well). USG% only sort of reflects the idea you're using it for, it only shows how much a player shoots it. Initiators like CP3/Nash/Stockton have relatively low rates while they absolutely need the ball in their hands to be highly influential on offense. KG was highly capable of being a huge impact player while shooting it less through his spectacular defense alone (see '08, where he was nearing the end of his physical prime, but was still absolutely fantastic), maybe the most versatile player of alltime. Kind of a super-Pippen really.
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Why did you even post this and why did Hekate like it? We're talking about players in their prime. KG shot the ball a **** ton. I don't give a **** what he did in 2008.

Super-Pippen? That's a horrible take. Probably one of the worst I've heard.
 
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