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Donald Fires FBI Director who's investigating Russian Election Hacking

I think Trump is on the verge of some colossal blunders.

I've got no love for Sessions, but the way Trump is throwing him under the bus right now is a move that could finally cost him the support of the Republican establishment. It certainly sends the signal that Trump offers no loyalty to those standing at his side. Not only does he put his closest people in difficult situations, if you can't navigate yourself out of it in a way that makes Trump look good he'll throw you to the dogs. I think he'll have a hell of a time replacing Sessions if he runs him off, at least replacing him with a qualified and competent person.

Firing Mueller would send up the biggest, brightest, most undeniable red flags ever. So I guess that translates into maybe 3-5% of current Trump supporters who would question such an action. Seems crazy but I'll take less Trump support 1 person at a time because the wall between reality and Trump's alternate universe is formidable.

Stepping on the toes of U.S. Military leadership. The trans-ban tweet cannot be going over well with top brass. Those guys don't make decisions on a whim like that and they feel a deep sense of ownership for their branch of the military. They want to be consulted. They want coordination. They want stability and reliability. Trump is taking that away from them and I imagine they'll fight hard to keep what they see as theirs. I don't think Trump grasps the kind of influence they can wield, especially with the people who support Trump the most.

Watch you step Trump, you've wandered into a mine field located in a snake pit inside the lions den.
 
Bulletproof said:
Firing Mueller would send up the biggest, brightest, most undeniable red flags ever. So I guess that translates into maybe 3-5% of current Trump supporters who would question such an action. Seems crazy but I'll take less Trump support 1 person at a time because the wall between reality and Trump's alternate universe is formidable.
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Wow, I love the way you put that.
 
I actually think Mueller must be de-commissioned. Too many conflicts of interest. Too much obvious connections with the hate Trump hangers-on, the few never-say-die opponents of the American electoral process and the written Constitution. He's as lawless as Hillary, and as truthful as Obama and Pelosi.

Red and Bullethole being encouraged on a public site is really the wrong thing to do for credibility. Colton has gone to zero so far as regular, non-activist fair-minded Americans think. So many people just sick of the fruitless witch-hunt.

So there are some really weird people who just hate Trump. Having some elites like Brennan openly talking about just "taking him out" is quite accurately characterized as Treason.

Great Utah public relations, Colton, The Utah JazzFanz treason club.
 
babe said:
I actually think Mueller must be de-commissioned. Too many conflicts of interest. Too much obvious connections with the hate Trump hangers-on, the few never-say-die opponents of the American electoral process and the written Constitution. He's as lawless as Hillary, and as truthful as Obama and Pelosi.

Red and Bullethole being encouraged on a public site is really the wrong thing to do for credibility. Colton has gone to zero so far as regular, non-activist fair-minded Americans think. So many people just sick of the fruitless witch-hunt.

So there are some really weird people who just hate Trump. Having some elites like Brennan openly talking about just "taking him out" is quite accurately characterized as Treason.

Great Utah public relations, Colton, The Utah JazzFanz treason club.
Click to expand...

You are a massive independent thinker. I was against it until you made the case. Your integrity proceeds you. Or is it precedes you? Irregardless, your reputation for independent thought, uninfluenced by the major market talk radio flunkies, your reputation for bucking the party line, your long history of introducing new ideas, all this leads me to give considerable thought to your arguments.

Now, if just some random blow-hard had offered up some sort of drivel, the sort of nonsense flooding the AM airwaves, just the flavor of the day political lollipop, I would just write it off. I wouldn't even read it, honestly. I'm familiar with that spoon-fed ideology. I see those cattle grazing and I take the long way 'round. I don't have time for them.

But when babe makes a post? Well, I know I'm going to get new information. I'm going to get something that makes me stop for a minute and think, hard. I can't just write that sort of insight off. I can't just ignore that kind of truth. Babe post are the kind of thing that has the potential to change my entire day. Heck, my entire life! He's bringing the deep facts. He's slinging the hard truth. He's erecting a truth pillar.

Babe doesn't stop at the door step of reality. He pushes his way inside. There is no degree of resistance that can stop his penetrating mind. Before too long you want him to probe in his determined unrelenting way. He needs to keep stroking that pillar of truth until he receives an eruption of secrets. He eats that kind of stuff for breakfast. He's hungry for more.

Tell babe your secrets. We all have them. We all played our part in the vast government conspiracies. Obviously, babe knows, based on his own predictions, at least 60% of Americans are involved in the conspiracies. Most of us know the truth. Have known the truth. And I'm guessing babe has no idea, but AM radio also has known the truth this whole time. Babe didn't know they knew. He figured this out all on his own. He is really smart. I promise you guys, he really is. No, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious. Babe isn't just the joke you all think he is. He isn't some old stupid AM radio junkie. He actually knows stuff and drops his special knowledge on us. We're just too dumb to listen. It just sounds too much like exactly what the right wing radio idiots say for us to really consider. But babe isn't just repeating what they say. I mean he isn't, is he? Is he really just repeating what the dumb asses on AM radio say?

Oh.
 
So here is one take on Brennan's comment:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-24/former-cia-director-calls-coup-if-trump-fires-mueller:

n the most vocal opposition to president Donald Trump yet, former CIA Director John Brennan said that if the White House tries to fire special counsel Robert Mueller, government officials should refuse to follow the president orders, as they would be - in his view - “inconsistent” with the duties of the executive branch.
"I think it's the obligation of some executive branch officials to refuse to carry that out. I would just hope that this is not going to be a partisan issue. That Republicans, Democrats are going to see that the future of this government is at stake and something needs to be done for the good of the future," Brennan told CNN's Wolf Blitzer at the Aspen Security Forum, effectively calling for a coup against the president should Trump give the order to fire Mueller.

****

Of course there is the "I think if" part of it. But it's not opinions that should rule in our country. The Constitution is the ultimate reference, the Supreme Court has maintained some sway over whatever the hell the Constitution still means.

At the moment, I don't recall whether the appointment of Mueller was done with authority from the DOJ or Congress. Whoever made the appointment is the place to look for the power to remove Mueller.

Actually, although Colton is blind or unthinking on this subject, I don't think it's in Trump's interest to remove Mueller, no matter what he does or claims to find, no matter what the Press makes of it, and no matter what the Trumphaters can make of it. The fact is, it is good for Trump to have this pack of Trumphaters on his tail, it makes him look good to more Americans than are willing to hate him.

And if Mueller finds nothing substantial, look for a huge Trump landslide in 2020. At some point, critics must begin to look reasonable rather than just crazy loons.

It sounds like Trump is wanting to just get rid of Sessions and Mueller. I don't think he actually can do either. But twittering out his frustrations isn't drawing out more critics. More people understand that these Sessions isn't doing much good, and hate him for his obsession with drug law enforcement. More people hate Mueller for his cronyism with DC politicians and especially Hillary.

Makes Trump look good to more Americans when he trashes them.
 
Bulletsore, sorry I didn't read much of your rant.

I know you think talk radio is moronic rightwingnut crap, that's why you love CNN, and do your own thinking de novo.

There are Constitutional ways to remove a President from office, those who talk of shooting the President or having some consensus of reasonable public officials just stop following the Excecutive Branch administration are actually advocating a sort of overthrow of Constitutional government in America.

We don't use the term Treason much in this country because we give wide allowance for political opinion. I don't think very many Americans care to use the term on their neighbors, really.

You and Red have both said stuff in the category of wishing for some means of removal of Trump beyond what the Constitution calls for.

Personally, I think it would be prudent for the mods to ban people who advocate revolution, seriously, or shooting the Pres, seriously. I know sometimes a few imbeciles come in here and use such ideas irresponsibly, and maybe are good for a laugh. But you and Red are a bit too wound up in your cause, and not very many people are realty laughing.
 
babe said:
So here is one take on Brennan's comment:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-24/former-cia-director-calls-coup-if-trump-fires-mueller:

n the most vocal opposition to president Donald Trump yet, former CIA Director John Brennan said that if the White House tries to fire special counsel Robert Mueller, government officials should refuse to follow the president orders, as they would be - in his view - “inconsistent” with the duties of the executive branch.
"I think it's the obligation of some executive branch officials to refuse to carry that out. I would just hope that this is not going to be a partisan issue. That Republicans, Democrats are going to see that the future of this government is at stake and something needs to be done for the good of the future," Brennan told CNN's Wolf Blitzer at the Aspen Security Forum, effectively calling for a coup against the president should Trump give the order to fire Mueller.

****

Of course there is the "I think if" part of it. But it's not opinions that should rule in our country. The Constitution is the ultimate reference, the Supreme Court has maintained some sway over whatever the hell the Constitution still means.

At the moment, I don't recall whether the appointment of Mueller was done with authority from the DOJ or Congress. Whoever made the appointment is the place to look for the power to remove Mueller.

Actually, although Colton is blind or unthinking on this subject, I don't think it's in Trump's interest to remove Mueller, no matter what he does or claims to find, no matter what the Press makes of it, and no matter what the Trumphaters can make of it. The fact is, it is good for Trump to have this pack of Trumphaters on his tail, it makes him look good to more Americans than are willing to hate him.

And if Mueller finds nothing substantial, look for a huge Trump landslide in 2020. At some point, critics must begin to look reasonable rather than just crazy loons.

It sounds like Trump is wanting to just get rid of Sessions and Mueller. I don't think he actually can do either. But twittering out his frustrations isn't drawing out more critics. More people understand that these Sessions isn't doing much good, and hate him for his obsession with drug law enforcement. More people hate Mueller for his cronyism with DC politicians and especially Hillary.

Makes Trump look good to more Americans when he trashes them.
Click to expand...

It’s hysterical to think Brennan was calling for a coup. Mueller was appointed by the DOJ and Brennan was saying if Trump orders DOJ officials to fire him they should refuse and instead resign.

The context is clear to anyone with any sense of history. In the midst of the Watergate scandal, Nixon ordered Elliot Richardson, his Attorney General, to fire Arichibald Cox who held the same position over the Watergate investigation that Mueller holds today over the investigation into Trump. Richardson refused and instead resigned. Nixon then ordered the Deputy Attorney General, William Ruckelshaus, to fire Cox. Ruckelshaus also refused and resigned. Next in line at the DOJ was Robert Bork who did fire Cox. Within days Congress introduced resolutions to impeach Nixon for obstruction of justice.

Refusing to follow such an executive order and resigning in protest is not anything close to a coup attempt, it’s a patriotic stance that the president is not above the rule of law.
 
How can someone be so detached from reality? It is medically induced? Astounding.
 
babe said:
Bulletsore, sorry I didn't read much of your rant.

I know you think talk radio is moronic rightwingnut crap, that's why you love CNN, and do your own thinking de novo.

There are Constitutional ways to remove a President from office, those who talk of shooting the President or having some consensus of reasonable public officials just stop following the Excecutive Branch administration are actually advocating a sort of overthrow of Constitutional government in America.

We don't use the term Treason much in this country because we give wide allowance for political opinion. I don't think very many Americans care to use the term on their neighbors, really.

You and Red have both said stuff in the category of wishing for some means of removal of Trump beyond what the Constitution calls for.

Personally, I think it would be prudent for the mods to ban people who advocate revolution, seriously, or shooting the Pres, seriously. I know sometimes a few imbeciles come in here and use such ideas irresponsibly, and maybe are good for a laugh. But you and Red are a bit too wound up in your cause, and not very many people are realty laughing.
Click to expand...

My post was about the kind of independent thinker you are. That you DON'T get all your ideas from talk radio.
 
Bulletproof said:
You are a massive independent thinker. I was against it until you made the case. Your integrity proceeds you. Or is it precedes you? Irregardless, your reputation for independent thought, uninfluenced by the major market talk radio flunkies, your reputation for bucking the party line, your long history of introducing new ideas, all this leads me to give considerable thought to your arguments.

Now, if just some random blow-hard had offered up some sort of drivel, the sort of nonsense flooding the AM airwaves, just the flavor of the day political lollipop, I would just write it off. I wouldn't even read it, honestly. I'm familiar with that spoon-fed ideology. I see those cattle grazing and I take the long way 'round. I don't have time for them.

But when babe makes a post? Well, I know I'm going to get new information. I'm going to get something that makes me stop for a minute and think, hard. I can't just write that sort of insight off. I can't just ignore that kind of truth. Babe post are the kind of thing that has the potential to change my entire day. Heck, my entire life! He's bringing the deep facts. He's slinging the hard truth. He's erecting a truth pillar.

Babe doesn't stop at the door step of reality. He pushes his way inside. There is no degree of resistance that can stop his penetrating mind. Before too long you want him to probe in his determined unrelenting way. He needs to keep stroking that pillar of truth until he receives an eruption of secrets. He eats that kind of stuff for breakfast. He's hungry for more.

Tell babe your secrets. We all have them. We all played our part in the vast government conspiracies. Obviously, babe knows, based on his own predictions, at least 60% of Americans are involved in the conspiracies. Most of us know the truth. Have known the truth. And I'm guessing babe has no idea, but AM radio also has known the truth this whole time. Babe didn't know they knew. He figured this out all on his own. He is really smart. I promise you guys, he really is. No, I'm not kidding. I'm being serious. Babe isn't just the joke you all think he is. He isn't some old stupid AM radio junkie. He actually knows stuff and drops his special knowledge on us. We're just too dumb to listen. It just sounds too much like exactly what the right wing radio idiots say for us to really consider. But babe isn't just repeating what they say. I mean he isn't, is he? Is he really just repeating what the dumb asses on AM radio say?

Oh.
Click to expand...

You two should put on some boxing gear an go at it. My guess is the transvestite wins.
 
babe said:
You and Red have both said stuff in the category of wishing for some means of removal of Trump beyond what the Constitution calls for.

Personally, I think it would be prudent for the mods to ban people who advocate revolution, seriously, or shooting the Pres, seriously. I know sometimes a few imbeciles come in here and use such ideas irresponsibly, and maybe are good for a laugh. But you and Red are a bit too wound up in your cause, and not very many people are realty laughing.
Click to expand...


You would need to show me, where, in any of the Trump threads, I advocated removing Trump by non-Constitutional means. I've certainly never advocated a revolution(against the National Security State? Impossible!). I've certainly never advocating shooting the President. Trump, on the other hand, claimed he could go out into the streets of New York, shoot anyone, and his supporters would continue to support him.

Most of my comments in this thread have simply been an effort to summarize the most recent developments, and provide links for a more detailed look at those developments. I have chosen links that reflect my point of view, but it is my right to present that point of view. Most recently I zeroed in on the existence of the two competing narratives, one of which, the fake news narrative embraced by Trump and his supporters, I regard as standard diversionary tactics. But in addition, that fake news narrative is also dangerous, in that it has helped create a false reality from which it will be very difficult for Trump supporters to ever emerge. And, by way of acknowledging the strength of that false reality, I have stated I do not believe any revelations regarding wrongdoing on Trump's part will breach the walls insulating Trump followers from reality. And expressed the opinion that that is really a tragic situation to create within the body politic. I do blame Trump for damaging our democracy that way.

Not to put words in your own mouth, babe, but I presume you regard what Trump continues to call "the Russian thing" as the false narrative. I just think you've allowed him to pull the wool over your eyes. You're supporting an authoritative executive who is far more disrespectful of our Constitution then I have ever been. And yes, babe, you bet I'm wound up in my cause. I'm passionate in my beliefs. Of late, I've done my best to try not to let my emotions swamp my reason, as I do recognize some people here have no doubt grown sick of my comments. So I'm trying to be a bit more dispassionate and just help provide updates of developments. Trump's speech to the Boy Scouts, which the director of the Boy Scouts has since apologized for(!) was, I believe, relevant. The civil war in the West Wing, with Scaramucci's profanity laced attacks, is also relevant for judging Trump. But, since I don't want an infraction, I can only recommend folks google Scaramucci and New York Magazine to see just how utterly chaotic the West Wing is becoming. That's the WH Director of Communications using that language. That's beyond words.

I'm no Constitutional authority. I am only aware of two legal means for removing Trump from office. Beyond the possibility that he dies in office of natural causes. No man knows the time and place, and it has happened in the past. But in terms of actual removal, one, there is impeachment by the House, and conviction by the Senate. It will likely be up to the Special Council as to whether the House ever drafts articles of impeachment. I fully support Mueller's investigation, and believe it would be a huge mistake for Trump to fire Mueller before his investigation is complete. The only other legal means that I am aware of for removal of the President is covered under the 25th amendment to the Constitution, Section 4, the first paragraph of that section quoted below:

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-27

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

"The principle officers" are the Cabinet members. The part reading "or of such other body as Congress may by law provide" is very interesting and seems to open the door for Congress to act if the VP and Cabinet members are not so inclined.
 
Red said:
...Of late, I've done my best to try not to let my emotions swamp my reason, as I do recognize some people here have no doubt grown sick of my comments. So I'm trying to be a bit more dispassionate and just help provide updates of developments...
Click to expand...

The handful of hyper-critical posters are trolls or so insecure in their beliefs they can’t stand an informed point of view opposed to their own. It would be a shame if you allowed them to limit or change how and what you want to post in any way. Think like Meursault, that the “howls of execration” give extra meaning to your endeavors and expose the fear that your posts contain truths they can’t admit without shattering their own small view of the world.
 
babe said:
I actually think Mueller must be de-commissioned. Too many conflicts of interest. Too much obvious connections with the hate Trump hangers-on, the few never-say-die opponents of the American electoral process and the written Constitution. He's as lawless as Hillary, and as truthful as Obama and Pelosi.

Red and Bullethole being encouraged on a public site is really the wrong thing to do for credibility. Colton has gone to zero so far as regular, non-activist fair-minded Americans think. So many people just sick of the fruitless witch-hunt.

So there are some really weird people who just hate Trump. Having some elites like Brennan openly talking about just "taking him out" is quite accurately characterized as Treason.

Great Utah public relations, Colton, The Utah JazzFanz treason club.
Click to expand...

I don't know what I've done that has caused you to feel so vitriolic towards me. If it's something in particular that I did or said, I apologize. If it's merely because I think Trump is a horrible President and that I believe Mueller is impartially investigating him, then I think your comments accusing me of treason are beyond the pale.

In the future I would appreciate it if you did not bring my name into your posts unless you are specifically replying to one of mine.
 
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/28/politics/john-kelly-chief-of-staff/index.html

Priebus resigned as Chief of Staff. DHS Sec. Kelly named new Chief of Staff.

Is this level of turn over normal for such a young presidency? Seems exceptionally fast/unstable to me.

FBI chief, Nat Sec advisor, Chief of staff.

Atty general under fire...

If I was a potential candidate for this admin to fill a spot I would want no part of it. Way to risky career wise.
 
As soon as Trump figures out to make his staff great again he'll get on that Making America Great thing.
 
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