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For People Who Think Hayward's Decision was Predetermined

I see the points on the east being worse... I just think they have issues to start the season with so many new parts and they have some interesting/challenging personalities in that locker room and it could go sideways in a hurry. Bradley and IT are locker room leaders... Morris can be okay (he's about loyalty so if his name comes up in trade rumors he could become an issue). Kyrie is tough to peg... kind of a loner and Gtime is a bit weird by NBA standards. Smart and Brown are a bit reactive/abrasive... you have guys that all want to prove something and are in a new situation.

I think understand are better bets than overs... one Horford/Kyrie/Gordon injury that causes them to miss 15-30 games and I don't think they hit it. I think the OU is set at their absolute best case scenario so I'd bet it all day.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The Raptors and Wizards are still pretty good teams too, but after that, that's pretty much it.
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Miami is okay too but easy to overlook.

Eastern conference is truly a **** show.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The East lost Paul Millsap, Jimmy Butler, and Paul George. That's 12 games that just got way easier for the Celtics. Plus they only play the Cavs 3 times this year. I think they win at least 53. 57 is easily reachable for them.
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Boston is a worse team now though.

They literally lost their two best defenders and a lot of depth.
 
White Chocolate said:
Boston is a worse team now though.

They literally lost their two best defenders and a lot of depth.
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They added two all-stars and lost one. They are a better team. They also have internal improvement from their young talent as well as adding an extremely talented rookie. I doubt they are worse next year.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
They added two all-stars and lost one. They are a better team. They also have internal improvement from their young talent as well as adding an extremely talented rookie. I doubt they are worse next year.
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Uh, no. They lost a ton of depth and most of their good players. Don't misrepresent the situation to make some stupid point.
 
Siro said:
Uh, no. They lost a ton of depth and most of their good players. Don't misrepresent the situation to make some stupid point.
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They have a higher talent level this year than last year. I don't see how anyone could argue that.
 
Siro said:
The have a shallower team, and they lost their top two defenders. It's not as simple as 2 all stars vs 1.
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Players will replace them. It's not like they didnt have players ready for the opportunity to fill their shoes.

Jaylen Brown is ready to play a larger role. Terry Rozier is ready to play a larger role. Marcus Smart also. Plus they added Jayson Tatum.

And it really is simple. They added more talent. Their ceiling as a franchise is now higher than it was previously. Could there be some learning curve moments? Sure, but I think they are clearly a better team. Brad Stevens and his system really helped make some of these guys. He is probably going to do it again since he still has a top tier core to build around.

But I get it, people are bitter Hayward left and dont want to extend any credit to Boston as a franchise or their coach and his ability to make players better.
 
I look at it more in this sense... is Kyrie going to give them what IT did last year... 76 games, and an efficient 29 and 6. Kyrie has never played 76 games in a season... he averages 64 games a year over his career. I think Kyrie this year is better than IT this year, but I don't think Kyrie gives them what IT did last year.

Bradley and Horford missed a handful of games, but nothing serious. So they had decent health last year and depth/versatility. No AB, Crowder, KO.

They also outperformed their record based on advanced stats... so they won close games... this may be repeatable, but I think they were maybe a win or two higher than they should have been.

Top end talent they are better, but they are way more volatile and a slow start or an injury and there is no way they hit 57.
 
Siro said:
The have a shallower team, and they lost their top two defenders. It's not as simple as 2 all stars vs 1.
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You're right. It's simpler than that. Brad Stevens/Elohim will form All-Star caliber players using the dust of the earth. Then Brad Stevens/Elohim and Gordan Haywood/Jehovah will put into him his spirit, the breath of life, that he may become a living soul.

And that's how it happens.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I look at it more in this sense... is Kyrie going to give them what IT did last year... 76 games, and an efficient 29 and 6. Kyrie has never played 76 games in a season... he averages 64 games a year over his career. I think Kyrie this year is better than IT this year, but I don't think Kyrie gives them what IT did last year.

Bradley and Horford missed a handful of games, but nothing serious. So they had decent health last year and depth/versatility. No AB, Crowder, KO.

They also outperformed their record based on advanced stats... so they won close games... this may be repeatable, but I think they were maybe a win or two higher than they should have been.

Top end talent they are better, but they are way more volatile and a slow start or an injury and there is no way they hit 57.
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Bradley and Horford missed a combined 41 games, so more than a "handful".

And 12 games on their schedule got a great deal easier as Millsap, George, and Butler went West. Nobody in the East got stronger outside of Cleveland, but they only play Cleveland 3 times this year and they will probably coast in the regular season again w/ a further aging Lebron and w/ IT's health probably being monitored.
 
One of the Boston owners told David Locke a year ago that they were going to get Hayward. A case could definitely be made for tampering.
 
It amazes me how Cy constantly and consistently argues against everyone. No way in hell he believes the **** that spews out of his mouth. Dude just likes to argue.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I look at it more in this sense... is Kyrie going to give them what IT did last year... 76 games, and an efficient 29 and 6. Kyrie has never played 76 games in a season... he averages 64 games a year over his career. I think Kyrie this year is better than IT this year, but I don't think Kyrie gives them what IT did last year.

Bradley and Horford missed a handful of games, but nothing serious. So they had decent health last year and depth/versatility. No AB, Crowder, KO.

They also outperformed their record based on advanced stats... so they won close games... this may be repeatable, but I think they were maybe a win or two higher than they should have been.

Top end talent they are better, but they are way more volatile and a slow start or an injury and there is no way they hit 57.
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Don't forget they lost this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=tdHbuTWMNTE
 
White Chocolate said:
It amazes me how Cy constantly and consistently argues against everyone. No way in hell he believes the **** that spews out of his mouth. Dude just likes to argue.
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Got to hand it to Cy on this one, he's sticking by his favorite player even if that player is one of the most hated people on this forum right now.
 
I think they will be roughly equal. Their top end talent improved and the conference is easier but they lost depth and defense.

I say that they finish the 2nd seed and wont get past the Cavs in the CF.

If by predetermined you mean Hayward had already made up his mind or not than I say it was. He decided months ago.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Players will replace them. It's not like they didnt have players ready for the opportunity to fill their shoes.

Jaylen Brown is ready to play a larger role. Terry Rozier is ready to play a larger role. Marcus Smart also. Plus they added Jayson Tatum.

And it really is simple. They added more talent. Their ceiling as a franchise is now higher than it was previously. Could there be some learning curve moments? Sure, but I think they are clearly a better team. Brad Stevens and his system really helped make some of these guys. He is probably going to do it again since he still has a top tier core to build around.

But I get it, people are bitter Hayward left and dont want to extend any credit to Boston as a franchise or their coach and his ability to make players better.
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Clearly a better team? They had 53 wins last year. I assume clearly better means you believe they will end up with at least 57 wins. So, like Vegas, let's set their OU at 56.5 and throw $500 on this. You say they end up with 57 wins or more, and I say 56 wins or less.

Or are you just a blowhard like franklin? I assume you are and expect some ******** excuse here.
 
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I don't think people are saying Hayward had made his decision. But if Hayward were honest with himself, he would have made his decision earlier. People are pissed because it felt like a publicity play even 8 hours after the leak happened... Then that article! Pooh water. It didn't mention Gobert, Favors, Hood, Ingles, or any of our current team.

The comments in the article don't match the title to this thread in the slightest. The evidence that he made up his mind before is a lot more compelling.

I still remember the end of the last regular season game when Hayward came off the court. We had just closed out a tight game and Hayward looked really emotional when he waived to the crowd. He took a deep sigh and almost looked teary. I posted that night that it appeared to be a 'This could be my last regular season game in Utah' sigh. It was the first time I was truly worried he wouldn't be back. But he was definitely leaning one way and he wasn't honest with himself and we all have every right to boo him for the next 5 years.

PS. The Celtics are returning 4 players from their previous team. I don't see how it's a foregone conclusion that they will win 57 games. Horford isn't THAT good. Hayward isn't THAT good. Kyrie isn't going to gel that quickly. And who is going to guard anyone? Kyrie? Hayward? Horford? Tatum? Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart are good defenders, but they have a lot of holes on defense and they can't play those two all game since they are the 5th - 7th options.
 
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