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The North Korea Conundrum

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So I have generally accepted the notion that this is an unsolvable problem. Either you accept the wholesale destruction of Seoul as the price of defeating the DPRK, meaning the loss of millions of lives and near complete destruction of South Korea's economy so that we can plant our flag on an already impoverished nation's capitol, or you accept that DPRK has nukes that can hit the U.S. mainland.

But it seems something may happen. I certainly hope that thing is not what I mention above. I hope that our military leadership is cleaver enough to imagine something better than that.

First I tried to contemplate the use of overwhelming ordnance, mostly bunker busters and MOABs, being hurled at the 13,000 conventional artillery installations in the mountains overlooking Seoul. Also moving in anti-missile/ missile defense systems close enough to be useful. At the same time you would hope that a surgical strike and/or assassination could be carried out to kill Kim Jung Un and leave the rest of the DPRK in a state of shock and confusion.

Maybe that's kind of possible. But the risk of failure seems high and the embarrassment (and I mean that to mean more than simple embarrassment) to the U.S. and our military prowess would be too great a risk to take for too small a prize.

So I wondered... What if something completely unexpected happened? Obviously that's the greatest military advantage, having something come from a direction so completely unexpected that it leaves all planning, all preparation, all predisposition rendered meaningless.

Let's start by considering that China would be in complete opposition to a U.S. occupation of North Korea. They do not want the U.S. or South Korea in control of the North Korean territory right on their boarder. This would be a massive provocation in our relationship with them, not to mention the potential that millions of South Koreans might be dead, South Korea's economy could be in complete ruin, the U.S. military might be looking like a ham fisted bully that throws its weight around not knowing where things are going to land. Russia would be emboldened. If we become occupied trying to right the mess in NK, Iran might also feel this is a good time to test us and press their luck.

So what if the U.S. takes no aggressive action against NK at all, yet the DPRK falls?

What if we convince China that either they act or we do? We give them the option to decapitate the Kim Jung Un regime and take control of North Korea or we convince them that the madman at the helm of the U.S. military will sacrifice Seoul and take NK himself? China gets to use the territory as a buffer between the U.S. and itself, it gains territory, it gains the military reputation and the credit for preventing millions of casualties.

If China were to attack NK the conventional artillery pointed at Seoul is meaningless. They can't fire on those who are not attacking them. In fact everything they have is pointed AWAY from China, towards SK and the U.S.. It makes irrelevant all of their power. It leaves them defenseless. Completely and utterly defenseless.

China is the hero. China in this single stroke cements itself as a new world super power.

I don't know... Seems crazy that China would agree to such a thing. But what if they really believe Trump is just dumb enough to take the lesser option and take NK for himself? I mean we can absolutely do it. If the U.S. wants to control NK before the new year we can. Then China has no say. Of course there is a peninsula of destruction, death, destitution left behind, but the U.S. absolutely can destroy NK if we're willing to sacrifice SK in the process.

Just a thought.
 
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it was solvable in the 900's just like iran is solvable now. but obama and clinton made turrible deals with those countries. clinton made one in the 90's
and obama last year


people see this as a trump problem. but this is a communism problem. as when the korean war ended their never should have been a communistic north korea. it was kicking the can down the road for decades. i say drop a nuke on those sums on bitches. and flatten irans infrastructure! bomb the **** out of strategic places
 
it was solvable in the 900's just like iran is solvable now. but obama and clinton made turrible deals with those countries. clinton made one in the 90's
and obama last year


people see this as a trump problem. but this is a communism problem. as when the korean war ended their never should have been a communistic north korea. it was kicking the can down the road for decades. i say drop a nuke on those sums on bitches. and flatten irans infrastructure! bomb the **** out of strategic places

This is why people like you shouldn't own guns. Because you want to nuke an entire country, innocent and all.
 
korea should have never been split into a communicstic fascist socialist pigfest and a capitalistic paradise

in 1945 north and south, where at a equal stage of development.

comunist russia wanted to sprea dtheir toxic left wing ideology, and usa wanted to spread liberty and the free market

so they split that poor country in half and let their ideology lose:

this is what we have now
the left wing part turned into a utter complete ****hole, that is threatening to nuke the world!
the right wing part capitalist part is the most inovative country in the world!

it is not an anomoly, sam ehappened to germany after the war. one place turned into a ****hole, east germany the comunistic ****hole
and west germany which turned into a capitalist paradise!


this should not have allowed to happen but it did.
and because it did, people who believe in left wing polcies and ideologies should SEE what their cancerous toxic ideology does. throughout history it lead to disaster after disasterr.
yet people says the right is evil! well the proof is in the pudding. or should we invade venezuela and split the country in half iwth 2 parts again and watch how left wing part gets utterly destroyed, and watch the cpaitalist part flourish!


this can has been kicked down the road for decades. time to telll the north to take town that wall(or dmz or whatever they have) and join the south or be NUKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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This conudrum like most troubles in the world are on behalf of socialism/communism.


will we finally learn!?! it is to late for north korea.

but not too late for other people pushing for those same ideologies
 
One X factor that does not get as much play as maybe it should is an EMP attack by North Korea. I've seen conflicting opinions on just how damaging such an attack would be. The worst case scenarios mentioned suggest our power grid would be down for years. I don't know enough about EMP to judge what its effects would be or whether the North could pull it off if it felt it had no choice...

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/north-korean-nukes-space-war/

"Earlier this year, North Korea’s testing of ICBMs included trajectories lofted to very high altitudes, which allowed Pyongyang to test warhead re-entry survivability, and minimised the risk of US military retaliation. The tests also demonstrated North Korea’s ability to detonate a nuclear weapon at high altitudes to generate EMP. Carrying out such an attack wouldn’t require accurate guidance, or high-yield warheads that are capable of surviving the heat of atmospheric re-entry, or even ICBMs.

A 2008 EMP Commission report (PDF) found that exo-atmospheric detonations of nuclear weapons would directly affect critical civilian infrastructure, most notably for power generation, telecommunications and data networks, as well as robotic industrial and manufacturing infrastructure. Analysis in June of this year on 38 North suggests that North Korea is already well placed to cause substantial damage to unprotected civilian networks using such attacks. That would hold true against the US, as well as its allies such as Japan and South Korea, or even Australia."
 
[MENTION=4984]Bulletproof[/MENTION] nice OP. Thought provoking and worthy of discussion.

Unfortunately dutch showed up and ruined the thread (like usual) to the point that it will probably just be ignored.

If others are like me they will see a bunch of spoilers of hidden (ignored) dutch posts and figure the thread is garbage now and just stay out of it.

No doubt he is the undisputed worst poster on jazzfanz currently.
 
The thread makes no sense when you have Dutch on ignore, mind you it probably doesn't make a difference either way.
 
So I have generally accepted the notion that this is an unsolvable problem. Either you accept the wholesale destruction of Seoul as the price of defeating the DPRK, meaning the loss of millions of lives and near complete destruction of South Korea's economy so that we can plant our flag on an already impoverished nation's capitol, or you accept that DPRK has nukes that can hit the U.S. mainland.

But it seems something may happen. I certainly hope that thing is not what I mention above. I hope that our military leadership is cleaver enough to imagine something better than that.

First I tried to contemplate the use of overwhelming ordnance, mostly bunker busters and MOABs, being hurled at the 13,000 conventional artillery installations in the mountains overlooking Seoul. Also moving in anti-missile/ missile defense systems close enough to be useful. At the same time you would hope that a surgical strike and/or assassination could be carried out to kill Kim Jung Un and leave the rest of the DPRK in a state of shock and confusion.

Maybe that's kind of possible. But the risk of failure seems high and the embarrassment (and I mean that to mean more than simple embarrassment) to the U.S. and our military prowess would be too great a risk to take for too small a prize.

So I wondered... What if something completely unexpected happened? Obviously that's the greatest military advantage, having something come from a direction so completely unexpected that it leaves all planning, all preparation, all predisposition rendered meaningless.

Let's start by considering that China would be in complete opposition to a U.S. occupation of North Korea. They do not want the U.S. or South Korea in control of the North Korean territory right on their boarder. This would be a massive provocation in our relationship with them, not to mention the potential that millions of South Koreans might be dead, South Korea's economy could be in complete ruin, the U.S. military might be looking like a ham fisted bully that throws its weight around not knowing where things are going to land. Russia would be emboldened. If we become occupied trying to right the mess in NK, Iran might also feel this is a good time to test us and press their luck.

So what if the U.S. takes no aggressive action against NK at all, yet the DPRK falls?

What if we convince China that either they act or we do? We give them the option to decapitate the Kim Jung Un regime and take control of North Korea or we convince them that the madman at the helm of the U.S. military will sacrifice Seoul and take NK himself? China gets to use the territory as a buffer between the U.S. and itself, it gains territory, it gains the military reputation and the credit for preventing millions of casualties.

If China were to attack NK the conventional artillery pointed at Seoul is meaningless. They can't fire on those who are not attacking them. In fact everything they have is pointed AWAY from China, towards SK and the U.S.. It makes irrelevant all of their power. It leaves them defenseless. Completely and utterly defenseless.

China is the hero. China in this single stroke cements itself as a new world super power.

I don't know... Seems crazy that China would agree to such a thing. But what if they really believe Trump is just dumb enough to take the lesser option and take NK for himself? I mean we can absolutely do it. If the U.S. wants to control NK before the new year we can. Then China has no say. Of course there is a peninsula of destruction, death, destitution left behind, but the U.S. absolutely can destroy NK if we're willing to sacrifice SK in the process.

Just a thought.

I think the Chinese would go for a unified Korea if the Americans agreed to withdraw. I also think the regime would collapse fairly quickly if the west invaded, the real issue is what would the Chinese do? I dunno i reckon nothing will happen, not anytime soon anyway. Anyway if the worst happens, nuclear winter is something to look forward to, i ****ing hate summer.
 
So I have generally accepted the notion that this is an unsolvable problem. Either you accept the wholesale destruction of Seoul as the price of defeating the DPRK, meaning the loss of millions of lives and near complete destruction of South Korea's economy so that we can plant our flag on an already impoverished nation's capitol, or you accept that DPRK has nukes that can hit the U.S. mainland.

But it seems something may happen. I certainly hope that thing is not what I mention above. I hope that our military leadership is cleaver enough to imagine something better than that.

First I tried to contemplate the use of overwhelming ordnance, mostly bunker busters and MOABs, being hurled at the 13,000 conventional artillery installations in the mountains overlooking Seoul. Also moving in anti-missile/ missile defense systems close enough to be useful. At the same time you would hope that a surgical strike and/or assassination could be carried out to kill Kim Jung Un and leave the rest of the DPRK in a state of shock and confusion.

Maybe that's kind of possible. But the risk of failure seems high and the embarrassment (and I mean that to mean more than simple embarrassment) to the U.S. and our military prowess would be too great a risk to take for too small a prize.

So I wondered... What if something completely unexpected happened? Obviously that's the greatest military advantage, having something come from a direction so completely unexpected that it leaves all planning, all preparation, all predisposition rendered meaningless.

Let's start by considering that China would be in complete opposition to a U.S. occupation of North Korea. They do not want the U.S. or South Korea in control of the North Korean territory right on their boarder. This would be a massive provocation in our relationship with them, not to mention the potential that millions of South Koreans might be dead, South Korea's economy could be in complete ruin, the U.S. military might be looking like a ham fisted bully that throws its weight around not knowing where things are going to land. Russia would be emboldened. If we become occupied trying to right the mess in NK, Iran might also feel this is a good time to test us and press their luck.

So what if the U.S. takes no aggressive action against NK at all, yet the DPRK falls?

What if we convince China that either they act or we do? We give them the option to decapitate the Kim Jung Un regime and take control of North Korea or we convince them that the madman at the helm of the U.S. military will sacrifice Seoul and take NK himself? China gets to use the territory as a buffer between the U.S. and itself, it gains territory, it gains the military reputation and the credit for preventing millions of casualties.

If China were to attack NK the conventional artillery pointed at Seoul is meaningless. They can't fire on those who are not attacking them. In fact everything they have is pointed AWAY from China, towards SK and the U.S.. It makes irrelevant all of their power. It leaves them defenseless. Completely and utterly defenseless.

China is the hero. China in this single stroke cements itself as a new world super power.

I don't know... Seems crazy that China would agree to such a thing. But what if they really believe Trump is just dumb enough to take the lesser option and take NK for himself? I mean we can absolutely do it. If the U.S. wants to control NK before the new year we can. Then China has no say. Of course there is a peninsula of destruction, death, destitution left behind, but the U.S. absolutely can destroy NK if we're willing to sacrifice SK in the process.

Just a thought.

Why do you think Mitt Romney wanted to increase defense spending? An Barack Obama do? An Trump an pretty much are entire Congess just did?

These plebeians think they know more then the inside intel. No! I'm sure [MENTION=1988]Stoked[/MENTION] is gonna show up shortly with his rash armchair geopolitical stance that he is certain is correct.
 
[MENTION=4984]Bulletproof[/MENTION] nice OP. Thought provoking and worthy of discussion.

Unfortunately dutch showed up and ruined the thread (like usual) to the point that it will probably just be ignored.

If others are like me they will see a bunch of spoilers of hidden (ignored) dutch posts and figure the thread is garbage now and just stay out of it.

No doubt he is the undisputed worst poster on jazzfanz currently.

You play the part [edited]. Well played. [edited] continually.

What Dutch said was correct. This geopolitical issue is in fact a communist issue. That is fact. Everone but you apparently knows this.
 
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You play the part [edited]. Well played. [edited] continually.

What Dutch said was correct. This geopolitical issue is in fact a communist issue. That is fact. Everone but you apparently knows this.
I had no idea what dutch even posted. I'm not reading his crap.

Reported btw.
 
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I had no idea what dutch even posted. I'm not reading his crap.

Reported btw.

Hahaha. Now you are bothering the moderators? For what!

An yeah the post I quoted has you sayin Dutch showed up so yeah maybe ya jest waked up an is not rememberin right. But thanks fer bein a bother ta the mods cause playin tha fool isn't a sayin. It's a complement dip ****.
 
Hahaha. Now you are bothering the moderators? For what!

An yeah the post I quoted has you sayin Dutch showed up so yeah maybe ya jest waked up an is not rememberin right. But thanks fer bein a bother ta the mods cause playin tha fool isn't a sayin. It's a complement dip ****.
Reported.
 
We might as well ramp up hostilities with 2 nuclear powers. Here's looking at you Iran.

Donald Trump is a boner.
 
I’ve posted before that I think that China and Russia are probably the key. The question I have is what will the want in return? It’ll be massive.

There [MENTION=4486]Boris[/MENTION]. Now you can feel like you Day is complete because you tagged me to get me to post in a thread. Groupie.
 
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