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The North Korea Conundrum

Stoked said:
I’ve posted before that I think that China and Russia are probably the key. The question I have is what will the want in return? It’ll be massive.

There [MENTION=4486]Boris[/MENTION]. Now you can feel like you Day is complete because you tagged me to get me to post in a thread. Groupie.
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What could we possibly give them that would negate their complete and utter contempt for having a unified and democratic pro-America Korea on their doorstep? Both China and Russia regard NK has a necessary buffer between themselves and us.

Does anyone here actually think that Putin will allow our military into NK without serious opposition? Do we think that Putin won't sabotage the rebuild? The Cold War hasn't ended folks, it's just slightly changed. Doubt me? Google the last few years over what's happened in Ukraine, Iran, South China Sea, and Syria.
 
If Bush hadn't torpedoed the deal that Clinton had in place then we most likely wouldn't be in the position that we are today. After Bush destroyed the agreement in place, all trust in our government eroded. And why should NK trust us? Why should Iran? It looks like a change of civilian leadership means a change of agreements. That's no way of conducting diplomacy. We are undermining diplomacy by flip flopping on past agreements.

The truth is, we need to look at things from NK's perspective for once. One of the few reasons why their government is still in power and hasn't been overthrown has been their insistence to invest in their military, hold Seoul hostage, and develop WMDs. Shortly after Gaddafi gave up his weapons, he was overthrown. We allowed/encouraged that to happen. NK has seen what has happened to other despots who didn't have WMDs. They aren't giving them up. They want to stay in power. Kim sees his WMDs as the only thing keeping him from being another Saddam Hussein.
 
The Thriller said:
What could we possibly give them that would negate their complete and utter contempt for having a unified and democratic pro-America Korea on their doorstep? Both China and Russia regard NK has a necessary buffer between themselves and us.

Does anyone here actually think that Putin will allow our military into NK without serious opposition? Do we think that Putin won't sabotage the rebuild? The Cold War hasn't ended folks, it's just slightly changed. Doubt me? Google the last few years over what's happened in Ukraine, Iran, South China Sea, and Syria.
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I was actually thinking more along the lines of Russia and China removing Kim Jong Un from power and set up a puppet gov or make it a Chinese territory or something. Not make it all S Korea with US troops there.

As for what they want. The US could back Russia’s play in Syria which would also be a heavy blow to ISIS. Interesting twist would be how Turkey and the Kurds react.

As for China. They’d probably want the Senkakus Islands or the US to recognize their claims in the S China Seas. Not sure the US ever makes that trade off.
 
Yeah, one of the biggest points of what I said was that China keeps the NK territory away from SK and the U.S. to maintain that buffer.
 
Bulletproof said:
Yeah, one of the biggest points of what I said was that China keeps the NK territory away from SK and the U.S. to maintain that buffer.
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I don't see china doing that. Mind you you never know, they refused to claim territory in their border wars with India, I still think while they are expansionist at present their main interest is in markets. Still i don't really think much will happen, Trumps sabre rattling I think has more to do with fueling his base domestically, you know the whole tough guy man of action image. (with a hair piece)
 
Rubashov said:
I don't see china doing that. Mind you you never know, they refused to claim territory in their border wars with India, I still think while they are expansionist at present their main interest is in markets. Still i don't really think much will happen, Trumps sabre rattling I think has more to do with fueling his base domestically, you know the whole tough guy man of action image. (with a hair piece)
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They could easily set up a gov in N. Korea that toes the Chinese line. One that engages in rapprochement with the world. Starts engaging in trade and diplomacy and leaves behind the Hermit Kingdom status. A strong N. Korea would be one more nation in Asia that follows their lead. Like Cambodia. I think that would be very enticing to the Chinese.

But I think the US is extremely unlikely to pay the Chinese price for them to handle this problem. They like, I think, that it stresses the US and causes us to commit time and personnel.
 
Stoked said:
I was actually thinking more along the lines of Russia and China removing Kim Jong Un from power and set up a puppet gov or make it a Chinese territory or something. Not make it all S Korea with US troops there.

As for what they want. The US could back Russia’s play in Syria which would also be a heavy blow to ISIS. Interesting twist would be how Turkey and the Kurds react.

As for China. They’d probably want the Senkakus Islands or the US to recognize their claims in the S China Seas. Not sure the US ever makes that trade off.
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Americans don't understand China. We axe areselves why in the daggum hell does China want all this tiny little islands fer? I will tell ya why. If there independent than the US kin put a nother base on ta surround China even more.

globalmilitarism58_14.jpg


That map shows are Great Wall of China an Russia. You want them ta play nice with show of military strength? Ain't happenin bud. We git riled up by Kim doin stupid thinks but realize the Chinese see what we are doin as 10,000 times what Kim does.
 
You're smart enough to realize the strategic importance of having territorial control of a major shipping lane. Some estimates are around 5 trillion in goods a year that go through that area. But yup, it's about bases when US troops are in Australia, Philippines, Diego Garcia, Japan, S. Korea...
 
Stoked said:
You're smart enough to realize the strategic importance of having territorial control of a major shipping lane. Some estimates are around 5 trillion in goods a year that go through that area. But yup, it's about bases when US troops are in Australia, Philippines, Diego Garcia, Japan, S. Korea...
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Go tell that to the Chinese. An bruh if it were about shippin an not world policin we would require them ta protect cargo ships as well. We ain't payin for all this just ta protect trade. That's a side benefit.
 
Boris said:
Go tell that to the Chinese. An bruh if it were about shippin an not world policin we would require them ta protect cargo ships as well. We ain't payin for all this just ta protect trade. That's a side benefit.
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No need to tell the Chinese. They already figured that out which is why they are doing what they are doing in the S. China Sea. No worries, you'll catch up eventually.
 
Stoked said:
No need to tell the Chinese. They already figured that out which is why they are doing what they are doing in the S. China Sea. No worries, you'll catch up eventually.
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Tryin ta follow yer logic is like tryin ta playconnect the dots on a red heads face. Kin ya spell out what the hell yer tryin ta say?
 
Rubashov said:
I reckon Boris and Dutch are actually alts created by the mods to screw with the rest of us.
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Yes, that is exactly why we we created Y19XT7. A need to equalize opinions, or as are master [MENTION=1]Jason[/MENTION] put it, overtly, ta try an harmonize.
 
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