suri1100134
New Member
that amazing story. i've never heard anything like that before
Longest Thread Ever
- Thread starter babe
- Start date
The idea at the outset was sorta frivolous. There have been a number of 'net threads claiming to be the longest thread ever. I've been involved in two others.....
There's no "stroke job" here. It's not serious. Not at all.
Sure I do pop off with a lot of grand philosophy and speculation, all my own opinions, with precious little authoritative reference to go with it.
Anyone who comes here needs to be feeling quite comfortable about who they are, and not feeling overly sensitive about anything I say. The idea is they get to say what they want, too.
ideas do not "belong" to humans. I think cows have "ideas" too. I know dogs do. Demonstrating fairly complex cognitive and reasoning patterns. Cows learn where the grass and water is, and make nice paths to get there in the shortest distance. Dogs are amazing in what they learn about us, and how they can be trained. I believe dogs understand me better than most human women could. Or anyone, for that matter. Simply because they pay more attention. And care.
The value of any idea is it's usefulness as some kind of reference in our thinking, or as some kind of principle for actions. If we don't enjoy the idea, or can't or won't use it, it's just words.
words don't have any intrinsic meaning or truth. Their value, like beauty, is always "in the eye of the beholder".
A "Church" cannot be true, or false, intrinsically on it's own institutional merit. The reason I think any "God" we should reverence is a person, and not some "force of nature", is because it takes a human sort of heart to actually "care" or "love", the way I believe God does
.
Yes, my cows care about their calves. With animals I'm just not sure it all comes up to the same level of caring.... We make plans, formulate intentions, to care about our offspring. I think that means "God" has to be a person. A "Person" with a plan. A "Father" if you will. So it takes that kind of a "Father" God to make a plan for us, and to stand as guarantor for the Truth of that plan.
The most impressive argument I could make for "Mormonism" is the emphasis of God being our actual "Father", as in we are actually his children. God and Man are the same species, living under different conditions, capacities or abilities, information and characteristics, maybe unique features of a personal sort, including the things we choose, but actually the same line of life. I don't know if there is a dog "God" or a cow "God" who would figure in the same way for them, but I believe I love my cows and dogs as good as I love my own kids. I say that that in the sense that the "Love" I speak of seems infinite, and goes pretty much out to the whole world without stipulation or "price". Not that I equate the value, necessarily, or the standing, of my kids in relation to me the same as anyone/anything else.
I dunno, maybe there is God of some other species, but I don't think that God has ever come to see us or speak to us, or do anything for us, at least that I have heard of. The charming thing about the Judeo/Christian idea of God is that He cares about us. I don't think the Islamists have a God like that. Maybe.... anyone wanna try to make that case????
Jesus gave his life as an atonement for our sin, to provide us a path back to our Father. If we will choose that path.
Jesus is our brother, not our Father. He volunteered to do something infinitely essential for us, consistent with our eternal rights as beings of a like kind with our Father.
The Plan was to give us life in this world, a physical sort of frame to act or work with. That is the single achievement all humans share in being born. I was talking about the value of having children above. In fact OL specifically asked me what value there could be in having children.
well, you are doing something for somebody else, helping "God", if you care to think in those terms. That is in a most fundamental sense, a "godlike" purpose and action. You are doing something for someone else that is, to them, of infinite value.
yah, this world is a craphole.... well, we could appreciate it infinitely if we chose to.... but let's just say we're not in that mood at the moment. We have a lot of difficulties, complexities, challenges of all kinds.... troubles sometimes of our own making but a lot circumstantial and universal to the human condition in this life.
But if you could believe in Jesus, and believe we have a way "home" to God, and a future life, and an eventual restoration of our physical capacities in a permanent fashion, we could just as well call this world the most wonderful place in all existence.... perfect at least in the essential need of our life.... the place where we "got a life".
"earth hath no sorrow Heav'n cannot heal". When we've run our course, all the injustices/difficulties of this life will have one permanent result. We will exist in a physical, objective, material sense with the capacities inherent in our physical existence.
A Father God who would undertake that kind of project for literally billions of us is worthy of our faith and respect, and our emulation and our effort to follow that plan.
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I don't get into saying what, how, or why others should say stuff. I'll take the offerings as a gift and deal with them for what they are. But I am sorta tough, a bit thick-skinned. Peoples' feelings are not something I'm really able to just guess. If anyone tells me their feelings, they might get some consideration on those points. Well, hopefully/.
To me, the human condition in this life is in some respects a kind of blindness.
Suppose you had a government.... or a "God" who told you everything you should think, and everything you should do, and everything you are allowed to feel or want. A sort of social justice Grand Inquisitor with the power to force you to obey.
yah.... let's say "God" was a "progressive" with all the latest talking points, and the absolute power of compulsion... a Hillary-like psychopath hell-bent on making everything "right".
How would you be able to have any sort of self-respect for any decision, any choice, any idea of your own, or any accomplishment? How would feel about life under those terms?
Mormons once believed that was Satan's plan for us, Lucifer's plan. Now I'm afraid they're just about as good about progressive ideals as anyone can be. But once they believed this world was created as a place where we could practice choice under conditions that promote individual thought and responsibility.
If "God", or any authoritative figure wilth all the power in the universe, were hovering over us, obviously making sure we could not go wrong or do wrong in any way, this life would essentially mimic our government's idea of education, the socialist notion of "train to the task" for function in society.... "common core" teaching more or less. You're told something, and you get to repeat it. Memorize it. If you check the right box and do what you're told, you can move on to the next point.
If God were standing right over you, you would likely not experiment with anything, or do any original thinking, and you wouldn't be here making your own choices.
But the plan for this life in this world is that it is your privilege to figure stuff out, live your own life, do what you will. If you go wrong, you have a Brother who has given you a way home, a way to get right between yourself and a Father who does in fact love you and understand you.
Rather than get all defensive as if I'm really expecting you to just accept whatever I think or say, just call my stupid little notions a sharing gift for whatever value you care to place in it.
And no, this idea is not explicitly or exactly "The Bible". Have a little fun with it.
I am glad.... I rejoice... for the fact that I am free to think and do as I will, that I live in a world with no proven undeniable "religion" everyone has to conform to. I just hope our socialist buddies don't make up their own religion and make us conform to that....
I don't mean to stroke your ego by doing two replies to you, but hey..... this longest thread thing won't work if I don't do a bit of redundancy.
This is a personal note. Of course you've tried several times already to suggest that I sit down, shut up, and stop talking..... not just in this thread but others. So you don't think I'm cool, and I don't givadamn.
you have your own sense of style, and you have friends here pretty much a whole spectrum, and you try to get along with folks. Well, unless you feel embarrassed by them, then you do this little smug conceited sort of "suggestion".
well, I've made a whole life of going my own way doing stuff my friends are embarrassed about. It's my style. I laugh at myself, that's how I roll.
But doing a random wandering thoughts thread, or a sort of open conversational thread, is like having a light on the porch and little welcome sign on the doormat. It's not necessarily a huge stroke job. That description might fit better say with a political thread dedicated to overthrowing the American electoral process for giving ordinary folks some say in their government.
Or having a whole site dedicated to promoting globalism/socialism or say preservation of open spaces.... as in anti-development environmentalists of the "not in my back yard" theme.
well, that's you. Great developer, now doing a project that is dependent upon your success in stopping development in your backyard.
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Funny that this whole diatribe is in reponse to reply by me that was, in fact, light-hearted and a jab at myself for being an attention whore. The irony is awesome.
And you’re welcome for the post.
I’m almost afraid to ask the connection of this post to my own. Almost.
I thought you had a sort of humorous angle in calling this LTE a "stroke job" in regard to my immense pleasure in keeping it going. With the intent to suggest it's time to throw in the towel.
This thread relates to my being a Jazz fan, in believing that one of these days a Jazz FO staffer.... or a Jazz fan with immense knowledge of college and high school players who will be available in a year or two.... will turn into a car wash and notice a worker who can wash the windows on both sides of the car whichever side he's standing on, or maybe see some kid with a blinding bounce pass who can get the ball to anyone on the court who has the hand speed to catch it.
In short, I have boundless optimism.
Someday someone will pop in here who can understand what I'm saying.
@Dr. Jones
do you recall the banter some years ago when I started this thread where we discussed your post totals and those for your champion scout threads? I stated that I'd be here long after you've gone home to meet Jesus, and that eventually I'd catch up...... lol.
hard to know the level of meaning intended in strangers' comments. No offense taken, or intended. Just another affirmation that I see no need to close this thread.
Another day, another topic.
Another day, maybe another sincere point of view, or a new tidbit of information. Sure nobody really cares, few really interested, but basically I see forums like this as a sort of amusement park. Curious onlookers welcome.
do you recall the banter some years ago when I started this thread where we discussed your post totals and those for your champion scout threads? I stated that I'd be here long after you've gone home to meet Jesus, and that eventually I'd catch up...... lol.
hard to know the level of meaning intended in strangers' comments. No offense taken, or intended. Just another affirmation that I see no need to close this thread.
Another day, another topic.
Another day, maybe another sincere point of view, or a new tidbit of information. Sure nobody really cares, few really interested, but basically I see forums like this as a sort of amusement park. Curious onlookers welcome.
Yeah, I remember.. and my prophesy holds true. Even better than Brigham’s tale of giants living on the sun.
I hadn't heard of "Giants living on the sun" as a BY point of science. Now, Jesus living inside the sun is another matter, one of those pretty much unspeakable doctrines of Mormonism. In theory, it is derived from the quote of Jesus "I am the light of the world", and some accounts of glorified humans having a radiance "exceeding the sun at noonday", and such.
That is, before Henry E. Eyring came to town and did a sort of pro-science speaking tour all around Utah and whatever other places he happened to be.....
With profound scientific explanations such as "I don't know how God did it, I just know He did." Pretty much, he was a revolution in Mormonism.
We believe in whatever the truth is, ultimately, when it becomes known.......
Yeah, I remember.. and my prophesy holds true. Even better than Brigham’s tale of giants living on the sun.
Ever hear of John Paul Jones and the Bonhomme Richard and Serapis, Dr.?
The Jones name has featured high in naval lore.... Davy Jones being perhaps the most notable as the seaman's devil of a sort.
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Ha.. you said seaman.
I get the premise, but it’s intellectually dishonest. Mormons believe in LOTS of things that evidence is in strong disproportionate assault on those beliefs.
It’s more disproving a negative.
all religion is in some sense "intellectually dishonest" and generally irrefutable on the grounds of logic. Because if it does not involve assertions of "faith" or "belief" in the unproven or unprovable, it is not what we generally understand "religion" to be.
Mormonism emerging during the European Enlightenment was decades behind other rationalist attempts to improve upon the dark ages' dogmas, and many early proponents attempted to correlate the faith with science. Lots of problems with that.
But when addressing the issues beyond our knowing, we really have nothing better to go on. Science and religion both seek to explain the universe beyond our knowing, but employ different tools for "seeing" the great beyond.
not sure what you think is relevant here. I googled Davy Jones and related the story in one sentence. The link used the word seaman. I just googled "seaman" and found there are contemporary cultural/entertainment productions using the term, and Merriam-Webster defines the term as a member of one of the lowest three ranks of naval servicemen/workers.
Sorry I didn't get your point..... still.....
I don't think so. Wrong maybe, unprovable to mortals on our order of existence, certainly. But people can sincerely and honestly believe things of this nature. As JFC has codified "lying", it's not lying if you believe it's true, and I would throw in "it's not intellectually dishonest, either".
A Mormon scientist like Henry Eyring, reading the D&C or PofGP, or Book of Mormon.... or even the Bible..... has literal mountains of intellectual challenges to deal with somehow..... and so do ministerial or pastoral folks of all Christian variants in regard to their "scriptural " texts that have obvious conflicts either with historical scholarship, or any other standard of judgment or research seeking facts.... objective, provable to our logic, sorts of stuff.
Henry Eyring chose to accept scientific findings in the field of evolution and geology as facts despite some folks' ideas of what the scriptures lay down as essential assertions. He was a practical man, and treated everyone with respect even those who disagreed with him. He tried hard not to be offensive, and when intellectuals came on attack mode to prove him wrong somehow, he was ready to say he didn't know how God did something, but he considered it his faith to believe whatever actually is the truth, when we can reliably know it to be so.
I would take the issue on a little different tack, and say there is no such thing as "settled science" or "scientific fact" even, because enquiry is the essence of science, and the formulation of challenges to existing ideas is the very purpose of science.
And I oppose any government effort to assert "settled science" on the populace. Government is incompetent on the subject and should never be given the power to license professionals involved in science of any sort. Or religion.
Indeed, I consider it my mission in life to challenge every form of dogma that anyone seeks to establish as the only acceptable idea on any subject.
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Intellectual Dishonesty
I suppose, is something like taking a scientific finding showing global temps have increased in concert with rising atmospheric carbon dioxide, and saying that proves God does not exist, or that we should fund UN global governance and give a little clique of Al Gore's friends with huge holdings in coal mine stock an equally huge asset in carbon credits they can sell easily around the world at huge profits. Oh, yah. And that we should agree to shut down American carbon burning while allowing China and India to just roll on and on burning carbon. In order to cut CO2, we should actually increase CO2 use world wide.....
uhhmmm..... maybe claiming that an infinite God that fills the vast Cosmos lives in one little nuclear holocaust lost in insignificance in a single galaxy.....maybe that takes incredible selection of data and ideas to hammer that together somehow...... maybe you're right.... in an intellectually dishonest fashion.
But Mormons believe God is a perfected man, glorified with a kind of immortality that transcends mere nuclear stars, and has finite physical/spiritual from like a man, and can radiate in some fashion the reality of His Presence instantaneously, appearing somewhere in an instant within a pillar of light.... yah, so living inside the Sun..... maybe.
a sort of theory of physical reality that transcends the idea of location while retaining a finite personhood.
uhhhmmm..... pretty sure I'm a child babbling nonsense in the sight of God.... but at least open to imaginative possibilities.
I suppose, is something like taking a scientific finding showing global temps have increased in concert with rising atmospheric carbon dioxide, and saying that proves God does not exist, or that we should fund UN global governance and give a little clique of Al Gore's friends with huge holdings in coal mine stock an equally huge asset in carbon credits they can sell easily around the world at huge profits. Oh, yah. And that we should agree to shut down American carbon burning while allowing China and India to just roll on and on burning carbon. In order to cut CO2, we should actually increase CO2 use world wide.....
uhhmmm..... maybe claiming that an infinite God that fills the vast Cosmos lives in one little nuclear holocaust lost in insignificance in a single galaxy.....maybe that takes incredible selection of data and ideas to hammer that together somehow...... maybe you're right.... in an intellectually dishonest fashion.
But Mormons believe God is a perfected man, glorified with a kind of immortality that transcends mere nuclear stars, and has finite physical/spiritual from like a man, and can radiate in some fashion the reality of His Presence instantaneously, appearing somewhere in an instant within a pillar of light.... yah, so living inside the Sun..... maybe.
a sort of theory of physical reality that transcends the idea of location while retaining a finite personhood.
uhhhmmm..... pretty sure I'm a child babbling nonsense in the sight of God.... but at least open to imaginative possibilities.
So I'm looking for the new page/new topic spot again, I guess.
Historically, the LTE idea had some JFC members willing to have some fun with it, but I ruined it by making serious comments, and "Dr. Jones" was a long way out in front with several of his scouting threads. The thrill-seeking numbers game sorta ran outta steam I dunno about post 2000. OL helped roll the ball on up until recently, and OB and Siro would take some interest, rarely, in the serious comments.
Dr. Jones gets his fun outta basketball, I think. Maybe I'll do some game comments and try to run up the count like this is the online chat sorta thing during games.... but hey, we have that on the front page. Nevertheless, I'm nothing if not redundant...... lol.....
But really, what I need is more frivolity in my life. Thank you in advance for any offerings.....
Historically, the LTE idea had some JFC members willing to have some fun with it, but I ruined it by making serious comments, and "Dr. Jones" was a long way out in front with several of his scouting threads. The thrill-seeking numbers game sorta ran outta steam I dunno about post 2000. OL helped roll the ball on up until recently, and OB and Siro would take some interest, rarely, in the serious comments.
Dr. Jones gets his fun outta basketball, I think. Maybe I'll do some game comments and try to run up the count like this is the online chat sorta thing during games.... but hey, we have that on the front page. Nevertheless, I'm nothing if not redundant...... lol.....
But really, what I need is more frivolity in my life. Thank you in advance for any offerings.....
I dunno, I at first see this thread as like one of those lounge you can hang out with friends or strangers in with pizzas and beers and just chat about nonsense stuff and just have fun with it relaxing and not care too much...
It was kinda like that until all of a sudden we reach a topic about politics or religion and suddenly a few people get serious about what they're saying and dig their heels in, and all of a sudden people are looking around at each other with that 'it's time to go home' look on their faces and started leaving ...
It was kinda like that until all of a sudden we reach a topic about politics or religion and suddenly a few people get serious about what they're saying and dig their heels in, and all of a sudden people are looking around at each other with that 'it's time to go home' look on their faces and started leaving ...