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The Memo

Fair enough, he's not exactly a polished politician like others, but I will gladly take that trade off given what he's actually doing for the economy. He's not nearly the bad guy the media tries to make him out to be.

He is dismembering our national institutions. He has been the greatest threat to our constitution in my lifetime. The economy was rebounding before he took office, but I will give credit to Trump that he has not done anything to halt the recovery and the tax reform seems to be having a significantly positive effect. We absolutely needed to lower the corporate tax rate and no Democrat would have done it. So plus one to Trump for that.
 
He is dismembering our national institutions. He has been the greatest threat to our constitution in my lifetime. The economy was rebounding before he took office, but I will give credit to Trump that he has not done anything to halt the recovery and the tax reform seems to be having a significantly positive effect. We absolutely needed to lower the corporate tax rate and no Democrat would have done it. So plus one to Trump for that.

Calling out actual corruption is not dismembering institutions. The entire FISA situation was based on blatant fraud from day one. If you want to talk about a threat, that's where you start. Also, look at how the economy has responded since the moment he won the electoral college. It wasn't rebounding anywhere near the rate it has since he took office and if you think it was you're absolutely in denial. Enforcing the constitution does not scream "greatest threat" to me, but to each our own. There have been plenty of things either corrected, or tried to be enforced that fall in line with the actual constitution that have been overturned by liberal courts it's not even funny. That is the real threat to our constitution, courts are meant to enforce law not change it to their political liking.
 
Fair enough, he's not exactly a polished politician like others, but I will gladly take that trade off given what he's actually doing for the economy. He's not nearly the bad guy the media tries to make him out to be.

He is dismembering our national institutions. He has been the greatest threat to our constitution in my lifetime. The economy was rebounding before he took office, but I will give credit to Trump that he has not done anything to halt the recovery and the tax reform seems to be having a significantly positive effect. We absolutely needed to lower the corporate tax rate and no Democrat would have done it. So plus one to Trump for that.
Calling out actual corruption is not dismembering institutions. The entire FISA situation was based on blatant fraud from day one. If you want to talk about a threat, that's where you start. Also, look at how the economy has responded since the moment he won the electoral college. It wasn't rebounding anywhere near the rate it has since he took office and if you think it was you're absolutely in denial. Enforcing the constitution does not scream "greatest threat" to me, but to each our own. There have been plenty of things either corrected, or tried to be enforced that fall in line with the actual constitution that have been overturned by liberal courts it's not even funny. That is the real threat to our constitution, courts are meant to enforce law not change it to their political liking.

I'm not talking about releasing the memo...

The actual constitution... please go on.

I've said many times over various administrations, the President is not emperor of the economy. Our economy has many moving parts and what the President does or does not do is only one of those parts. I gave Trump full credit for not damaging our economic recovery and significantly boosting it with tax reform that would not have happened in in current form with anyone other than Trump. So I don't know where you saw me denying Trump his due credit for our surging economy?
 
If this investigation had been opened against Obama by the FBI under Bush's watch I am confident that the vast majority of people would be on the opposite sides of this controversy as they are now. In other words, I do not believe you would be saying that the allegations made in the memo did not matter if you did not dislike Trump.

Failed attempt to distract from the truth that this memo was written by bias republicans to attempt to justify the closure of the investigation into Trump' s collusion with Russia. Sorry Trump is going down if they find what many believe he did to win the election. When are republicans going to top talking about Obama/Clinton neither are president and have nothing to do with the situation in hand. Seems like the GOP only talk about personal responsibility when it comes to liberals and Democrats.
 
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He is dismembering our national institutions. He has been the greatest threat to our constitution in my lifetime. The economy was rebounding before he took office, but I will give credit to Trump that he has not done anything to halt the recovery and the tax reform seems to be having a significantly positive effect. We absolutely needed to lower the corporate tax rate and no Democrat would have done it. So plus one to Trump for that.


I'm not talking about releasing the memo...

The actual constitution... please go on.

I've said many times over various administrations, the President is not emperor of the economy. Our economy has many moving parts and what the President does or does not do is only one of those parts. I gave Trump full credit for not damaging our economic recovery and significantly boosting it with tax reform that would not have happened in in current form with anyone other than Trump. So I don't know where you saw me denying Trump his due credit for our surging economy?

So the Tax rates became effective and the stock market drops 666 points and Toy' R us is closing 180 plus stores etc.. seems to me the saying the tax breaks are working very well is getting ahead of yourself.

Beside the fact that trickle down economics has been proven time and again not to create economic gains the republicans always promise. Corporation needed a tax break, now that is funny stuff.

Funny how when the economy recovered under Obama, Republicans gave him zero credit and torched him for saying Bush ran the economy into the ground (which was true). Now, they give Trump all the credit for the economy before the tax cuts and now they are claiming it is because of the tax cuts which really haven't been in affect long enough to claim they are the reasons for the "great" Trump economy.
 
So the Tax rates became effective and the stock market drops 666 points and Toy' R us is closing 180 plus stores etc.. seems to me the saying the tax breaks are working very well is getting ahead of yourself.

Beside the fact that trickle down economics has been proven time and again not to create economic gains the republicans always promise. Corporation needed a tax break, now that is funny stuff.

Funny how when the economy recovered under Obama, Republicans gave him zero credit and torched him for saying Bush ran the economy into the ground (which was true). Now, they give Trump all the credit for the economy before the tax cuts and now they are claiming it is because of the tax cuts which really haven't been in affect long enough to claim they are the reasons for the "great" Trump economy.

So which is it? 8 years of subpar GDP growth under Obama was Bush's fault but a surging economy under Trump is Obama's success?
 
So which is it? 8 years of subpar GDP growth under Obama was Bush's fault but a surging economy under Trump is Obama's success?

Can you breakdown what Trump has done to boost the economy? Like link some action of his to specific economic gains? And the timing needs to make some kind of sense.

Like I've said a few times in this thread. I give Trump full credit for not screwing up our economic recovery. That is an actual accomplishment, I suspect Hillary would have caused harm where Trump has not. Presidents have more power to harm the economy than they have to improve the economy.
 
I said that bulletproof has always said that if you commit a crime you should be punished regardless of anything else.
I don’t think having a sex life is criminal.
I’m still waiting for a conviction for Hillary’s “crimes”

You are not very good at comprehending/understanding the things I say in my posts either apparently.
Last I checked rape is a crime.

I'm waiting for a conviction of Hillary's crimes, too. I am confident that if she wasn't the recipient of special treatment that our wait would have long ago ended. Honestly, I don't see how anyone could dispute that.
 
Last I checked rape is a crime.

I'm waiting for a conviction of Hillary's crimes, too. I am confident that if she wasn't the recipient of special treatment that our wait would have long ago ended. Honestly, I don't see how anyone could dispute that.

A.Who got raped?
B. If someone got raped I’m certain that bulletproof would want the rapist to go to prison regardless of who the rapist is or the situation, which was my original point.
 
Failed attempt to distract from the truth that this memo was written by bias republicans to attempt to justify the closure of the investigation into Trump' s collusion with Russia. Sorry Trump is going down if they find what many believe he did to win the election. When are republicans going to top talking about Obama/Clinton neither are president and have nothing to do with the situation in hand. Seems like the GOP only talk about personal responsibility when it comes to liberals and Democrats.
You are way off here. Questioning whether liberals would have reacted the same had Obama or Clinton been president is not the same as talking about them or laying some sort of blame on them. It is simply recognizing that partisans want a different set of rules for their people vs. the other side. Same goes for conservatives, BTW.

The bigger question to me is, did Trump collude with the Russians? So far I have seen no evidence that it actually happened, and to me the apparent switch to trying to take him down for obstruction rather than collusion looks like it's partially driven by the fact that liberals no longer expect to find the evidence for collusion either. Could it be true that the whole collusion story was made up for the purpose of driving Trump from office? Is that the plan that Strzok was referring to in his texts? Based on the info I have seen so far, I don't think that's impossible.
 
A.Who got raped?
B. If someone got raped I’m certain that bulletproof would want the rapist to go to prison regardless of who the rapist is or the situation, which was my original point.
A. Juanita Broaddrick for one. Google her if you don't know the story.
B. I'm not going to dig through old messages, but bulletproof (when he went by gameface) said that Clinton's sex life was his own business and that none of this mattered when we were having a conversation about Hillary's role in covering for Bill's predatory behavior.
 
Who's irrational hatred is greater.

My Hatred of Trump?

or

Joe's hatred of me?

Probably my hatred of Trump, tbh.
Definitely your hatred of Trump. I don't hate you at all. I don't seek to have you banned from this site or from your job or from anything else. I just disagree with your partisanship.
 
Definitely your hatred of Trump. I don't hate you at all. I don't seek to have you banned from this site or from your job or from anything else. I just disagree with your partisanship.
Did you know Hillary is the only Democrat I've voted for other than Kerry? Yeah, I'm pretty partisan.
 
He is dismembering our national institutions. He has been the greatest threat to our constitution in my lifetime. The economy was rebounding before he took office, but I will give credit to Trump that he has not done anything to halt the recovery and the tax reform seems to be having a significantly positive effect. We absolutely needed to lower the corporate tax rate and no Democrat would have done it. So plus one to Trump for that.

You're wrong imo about doing nothing to halt the recovery. His election destroyed any chance of TPP getting signed. Of course it's hard to say what damage that did because we don't live in an alternate reality in which there is more free trade in the world. I tend to think especially in the long run that handing over economic leadership in the Pacific to China isn't going to be good for us.
 
You're wrong imo about doing nothing to halt the recovery. His election destroyed any chance of TPP getting signed. Of course it's hard to say what damage that did because we don't live in an alternate reality in which there is more free trade in the world. I tend to think especially in the long run that handing over economic leadership in the Pacific to China isn't going to be good for us.

All I'm saying here is that Trump is the President and the economy has been recovering. To Trump supporters claiming he is the reason, I don't have an argument to tell them that he has been bad for the economy. So I give credit where it is due. Trump is the President and the economy is good.

I don't want to put myself in the camp of reality deniers.
 
Did you know Hillary is the only Democrat I've voted for other than Kerry? Yeah, I'm pretty partisan.
I know that you frequently make that claim. I also know that you make lots posts that come off as liberally biased to me. But we got off on the wrong foot when you started making up horrible stories about me and my family, so I will admit that I can't read any of your posts without feeling a negative bias.
 
You are way off here. Questioning whether liberals would have reacted the same had Obama or Clinton been president is not the same as talking about them or laying some sort of blame on them. It is simply recognizing that partisans want a different set of rules for their people vs. the other side. Same goes for conservatives, BTW.

The bigger question to me is, did Trump collude with the Russians? So far I have seen no evidence that it actually happened, and to me the apparent switch to trying to take him down for obstruction rather than collusion looks like it's partially driven by the fact that liberals no longer expect to find the evidence for collusion either. Could it be true that the whole collusion story was made up for the purpose of driving Trump from office? Is that the plan that Strzok was referring to in his texts? Based on the info I have seen so far, I don't think that's impossible.

Well, Mueller has run a pretty tight, non-leak, ship up to this point. Something he has a reputation for. Lately, everything does indeed point to obstruction of justice without any leaks suggesting an underlying crime. Except perhaps for Trump's consistent efforts to impede the Mueller probe. It's not the way an innocent man acts, IMHO, although it might be the way a guy like Trump acts if he just wants an investigation ended that is a huge distraction to his "greatness" as President. Those may be the only two credible reasons for his acting to obstruct the probe. Either he knows he's guilty of something and worried, or he wants a baseless distraction put to rest.

I have not finished it yet, but am well along in reading The Guardian's Luke Harding's recent book "Collusion: Secret Meetings, Dirty Money, and how Russia Helped Donald Trump Win". Can you guess the slant? Lol. Of course. It's basically based on examining the evidence in the Dossier, including interviews with Steele. And of course that Dossier is at the heart of the accusations in the GOP's Nunes Memo. As far as Steele is concerned, who was highly regarded by our own FBI, and whose intelligence expertise when he worked for British intelligence was Russia, and who cultivated many sources within Russia during his time stationed in Moscow, his Dossier is 70-90% accurate. In reading Harding's book, I'm just getting into Carter Page and his role as the link between the Trump campaign and individuals close to Putin. Now, Harding himself is an expert on Russia.

From the blurb on the back jacket: "Drawing on new material and his expert understanding of Moscow and its players, Harding takes the reader through every bizarre and disquieting detail of the "Trump-Russia" story-an event so huge it involves international espionage, off-shore banks, sketchy real estate deals, the Miss Universe pageant, mobsters, money laundering, poisoned dissidents, computer hacking, and the most shocking election in American history. The result is an explosive, thriller-like expose that lays out the Trump administration's ties to Moscow and Russia's decades-in-the-making political game to upend American democracy".

Of course, that blurb is designed to attract potential buyers of Harding's book, and of course it will appeal to people not part of Trump's base. That said, I keep in mind that Bannon said at one point that money laundering would be a key element in Mueller's probe, and, if one looks, and I'll let you do that research if you wish, one can find connections between the Russian mob and Trump in the area of money laundering that are disquieting. And, in Russia under Putin, Putin, Russian intelligence services, and the Russia mafia are all closely linked. They are all one to the degree that Russia is essentially a mafia state.

Bottom line. I don't believe Mueller is finished examining possible cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia where helping Trump get elected is concerned. Steele's Dossier makes the claim, based on Steele's Russian sources, that there was indeed "collusion" in that regard. Now the GOP is making every effort to discredit the Steele Dossier, but not everyone agrees that it is somehow completely worthless. On the contrary, Steele has a reputation as a pro's pro in intelligence work, who would be the last person to put info in his Dossier that he felt had absolutely no value.

But, Trump may just need enough political capital to get rid of Rosenstein and Mueller, and Trump can refuse to release the Democrat's own memo in reply to Nunes. Whether he does act to fire Mueller, and whether that initiates a Constitutional crisis remains to be seen.
 
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Failed attempt to distract from the truth that this memo was written by bias republicans to attempt to justify the closure of the investigation into Trump' s collusion with Russia. Sorry Trump is going down if they find what many believe he did to win the election. When are republicans going to top talking about Obama/Clinton neither are president and have nothing to do with the situation in hand. Seems like the GOP only talk about personal responsibility when it comes to liberals and Democrats.

So, anyway..... there were dems on the committee, but I'm sure they were not part of the decision. Rumors abound about an alt dem memo from the dems in that committee, who have already claimed some important things were left out.

So let them write their memo. Send it to Trump for release approval, and I bet he approves it's release.

Trump has commented negatively on Mueller and the investigation, and there is no fool, let alone sensible person, who would believe the subject of closing the Mueller investigation has not been discussed by Trump aides/partisans in their own little gaggles and with Trump himself. However, the sensibilities that prevail in the Trump camp center on two facts. Trump say, and did not, do anything in cooperation/collusion/ or even in any normal relation with the Russians beyond reviewing some of the issues around Ukraine politics and Russia's actions/politics regarding Ukraine, Korea, Syria, and Iran. Of course Russia is active politically all around the world, but Trump did not have time to review everything. So few Trump team members had any connections at all with Russia. Sure Trump has talked to Russian oligarchs/businessmen etc and some have probably even rented suites in his hotels. Nothing to do with national interests or trying to influence or disrupt American politics..... just business deals and personal stuff./

So, Trump has nothing to fear from Mueller unless Mueller makes up his own damn lies and creates evidence, which Mueller is nutty enough to do. Well, unless even he realizes would end up being refuted. The truth will prevail.

The second reality is that closing the Mueller investigation would be a worse sort of nightmare for Trump what with all the whole kit and caboodle of leftwing/CFR conspiracy theorists would make up. Tin foil hat time on the Left.

So the Rs on the committee that released the memo have directly stated that the memo is no reason to shut down the Mueller investigation. The R's are gonna let him sift through whatever he can find for the next six decades, or until Mueller himself throws in the towel saying "I'll be damned if anything wrong was done by Trump."
 
right "wingnuts" on the radio have pretty much claimed vindication for things they've been saying. I haven't heard Levin comment yet, he had someone filling in for me the other day.

the memo released is a summary of a larger/longer "memo" and is only 4 or 5 pages, depending on whether you count the cover sheet or whatever I suppose. The unabridged "Memo" is a hundred pages or so. I haven't seen it yet. Alex Jones a week ago started a show announcing he had figured out what was in it from stuff he'd heard, and started to break it down. In the middle of his show, someone who had a copy of the longer memo (around 100 pages) emailed him a copy of that saying "why not just give you this" supposedly... I haven't followed up on that except from a few moments checking in of InfoWars or his show, and have not looked for what he said he'd post on InfoWars, but it seems he decided to pull it and just wait for the coming releases from official sources.

At any rate, the dems and the Trumpdumpsters have had this information themselves and have had plenty of time to work on their responses. Kinda telling, @Red and @Bulletproof, that so far it's nothing but bald baseless denials. Where's the facts, the info, the proof.

Andrew Wilkow took the position that the public must see the actual documents submitted to the FISA court, see the signatures attesting to the truthfulness of the information under oath, and see the supporting information provided.

Apparently, at least one who would have known it all has said that except for the dossier there was no other evidence.

And the folks at the DOJ and FBI will have to produce "other evidence" if they ever had any.

Mark Levin, an attorney and DOJ official under Reagan who knows a lot about the nature of the DOJ and their way of doing business, came out with an explanation over a year ago..... right after the election.....essentially asserting exactly what might be inferred from "The Memo", which still has not been refuted. I was here relating his assertions at that time.... being mobbed by the Trumpdumpsters for reporting it.

Except for Trump's unexpected election win, none of us would have ever heard any of this.
 
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