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If Jazz draft Kanter, then hire Karl Malone

JohnStockalypse said:
Who said stars? I said CAPABLE STARTERS.

Here's some guys that were available at 12 without being major reaches (12-20) from 2000-06:
2000
16 Hedo Turkoglu
18 Quentin Richardson

2001
12 Vlad Radmonovic
13 Richard Jefferson
14 Troy Murphy

2003
18 David West

2004
15 Al Jefferson
17 Josh Smith
20 Jameer Nelson

2005
17 Danny Granger

2006
14 Ronnie Brewer
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You obviously didn't read the instructions again. Last chance child!

Of course we'd love to have Lebron or Dwight at #12. But look @ history. Rely on the history of players taken at #12 and not on your emotions/desires.
 
jazzman12 said:
It's also laughable that most NBA scouts have Jimmer pegged as a niche-type of role player, yet you have posters in here actually trying to make it sound as if Jimmer has a better all-around NBA game than Derrick Rose. You'll only see such rationale in a Jazz or BYU forum.

In what is being billed as quite possibly the weakest NBA draft in recent history, Jimmer is being projected mostly in the 10-to-20 range. If this were a deep draft, he'd be lucky to hear his name called in the 1st round.

The kid could end up being a really nice role-player who could parlay his shooting niche into a 10+ year NBA career, but a star or a starter he is not.
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You obviously didn't read the post.

Rose is clearly one of the best players in the entire world. We're talking about versatility. We're talking about being multi-dimensional.
 
The Thriller said:
You obviously didn't read the instructions again. Last chance child!

Of course we'd love to have Lebron or Dwight at #12. But look @ history. Rely on the history of players taken at #12 and not on your emotions/desires.
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I just looked at the history. Limiting it it exactly the 12th pick is stupid. Just because other teams **** up pick 12 it's ok if we do? If its guaranteed to be what all the players at 12 have been lately we might as well forfeit the pick and save money.

I never said we need to find a LeBron or Howard at 12. Why you brought that up is beyond me. Just like setting up straw men for yourself? I said we should be able to find a CAPABLE/SOLID STARTER at 12. The history backs up that at 12 there ARE players AVAILABLE who fit that mold. If you think Jimmer fits that, just say it. I disagree.
 
JohnStockalypse said:
I just looked at the history. Limiting it it exactly the 12th pick is stupid. Just because other teams **** up pick 12 it's ok if we do? If its guaranteed to be what all the players at 12 have been lately we might as well forfeit the pick and save money.

I never said we need to find a LeBron or Howard at 12. Why you brought that up is beyond me. Just like setting up straw men for yourself? I said we should be able to find a CAPABLE/SOLID STARTER at 12. The history backs up that at 12 there ARE players AVAILABLE who fit that mold. If you think Jimmer fits that, just say it. I disagree.
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#12 is where we're picking. If you find that stupid then take it up with KOC.

I am by no means advocating a Jimmer pick @ #12. However, saying that drafting him there would be a "huge mistake" because he's not the star you want is ridiculous given the history of players taken @ #12.

More often than not, you're going to get a bench/role/fringe starter at #12 than star.

Again, I'd love to have Lebron at 12. But that hasn't been the case historically.

Rely more on history not on your pathetic emotions, child. Stop relying on your opinions and what "you think" and look at the history. It really is, that simple. Now I fully expect you to come back in 3 consecutive posts ignoring the facts presented to you. So lets just call it a day, shall we?
 
JohnStockalypse said:
I just looked at the history. Limiting it it exactly the 12th pick is stupid. Just because other teams **** up pick 12 it's ok if we do? If its guaranteed to be what all the players at 12 have been lately we might as well forfeit the pick and save money.

I never said we need to find a LeBron or Howard at 12. Why you brought that up is beyond me. Just like setting up straw men for yourself? I said we should be able to find a CAPABLE/SOLID STARTER at 12. The history backs up that at 12 there ARE players AVAILABLE who fit that mold. If you think Jimmer fits that, just say it. I disagree.
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Yeah, but you have to look at the odds of getting the right player at that pick. If it was so easy to get a decent starter at 12, then teams would be ****** doing it. It's not easy.
 
And maybe the reason it's not easy is because the people who draft at 12 get into that mindset of "Oh **** we are in the lottery, we better get a solid starter" instead of "Take the guy who has proven productivity and a skill set".
 
The Thriller said:
#12 is where we're picking. If you find that stupid then take it up with KOC.

I am by no means advocating a Jimmer pick @ #12. However, saying that drafting him there would be a "huge mistake" because he's not the star you want is ridiculous given the history of players taken @ #12.

More often than not, you're going to get a bench/role/fringe starter at #12 than star.

Again, I'd love to have Lebron at 12. But that hasn't been the case historically.

Rely more on history not on your pathetic emotions, child. Stop relying on your opinions and what "you think" and look at the history. It really is, that simple. Now I fully expect you to come back in 3 consecutive posts ignoring the facts presented to you. So lets just call it a day, shall we?
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No one said star players are commonly available at 12. I said solid starters are. I'm done arguing with you. You refuse to even be on the same argument. I could be saying the grass is green and you'd try to counter it with ice is cold. And you call ME childish? Child please.


Dwill_PwnasaurasRex said:
Yeah, but you have to look at the odds of getting the right player at that pick. If it was so easy to get a decent starter at 12, then teams would be ****** doing it. It's not easy.
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Agreed. But my point isn't "if we don't get a solid starter, fire KOC." It's "I don't think Jimmer's ceiling is even solid starter so don't take him at 12 when historically there has been better options available." Its really not even about the history of the draft, despite the straw The Thriller is trying to burn. I think there are more than 11 players in this draft with a better chance to become a solid starter or more, so I don't take Jimmer at 12. It's my opinion. If The Thriller thinks Jimmer can be a solid starter, I don't know why he doesn't just say it. If he doesn't, I guess he just likes to hear/read himself talk/type?
 
JohnStockalypse said:
No one said star players are commonly available at 12. I said solid starters are. I'm done arguing with you. You refuse to even be on the same argument. I could be saying the grass is green and you'd try to counter it with ice is cold. And you call ME childish? Child please.




Agreed. But my point isn't "if we don't get a solid starter, fire KOC." It's "I don't think Jimmer's ceiling is even solid starter so don't take him at 12 when historically there has been better options available." Its really not even about the history of the draft, despite the straw The Thriller is trying to burn. I think there are more than 11 players in this draft with a better chance to become a solid starter or more, so I don't take Jimmer at 12. It's my opinion. If The Thriller thinks Jimmer can be a solid starter, I don't know why he doesn't just say it. If he doesn't, I guess he just likes to hear/read himself talk/type?
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Once again, simple instructions ignored by the child. You'd think after 4 posts he/she would eventually get it.
 
Just wondering if you're a Chad Ochocinco fan, considering your liberal use of the phrase, "Child, please." Either that or that woman that modeled for the bottle of that one syrup brand.
 
JohnStockalypse said:
I don't see Jimmer getting to the lane very effectively in the NBA. IMO, he'll mostly be a spot up shooter and come off some screens. I'd much rather have the guy that can take it all the way to the rack and dunk/get fouled consistently.

Rose averaged 25 points and 7.7 assists this year...Jimmer doesn't have an offensive game to get him anywhere near that in the NBA. Comparing him to Rose is laughable.
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Why wouldn't Jimmer get to the line in the NBA? He has a very strong core and can definitely draw contact. Kevin Martin can get to the line often; can't see why Fredette can't.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Why wouldn't Jimmer get to the line in the NBA? He has a very strong core and can definitely draw contact. Kevin Martin can get to the line often; can't see why Fredette can't.
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Kevin Martin isn't the best person to compare to for Jimmer to get to the line. His funky shot alone gets him to the FT line. His pump fake and actually shot are so similar that defenders jump at will, which gets him FT line.
 
The Thriller said:
You obviously didn't read the post.

Rose is clearly one of the best players in the entire world. We're talking about versatility. We're talking about being multi-dimensional.
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While Rose wasn't the shooter in college that Jimmer was, he has a few facets to his game that are flat-out great. Jimmer does several things good, but he also does nothing "great" IMO. The best analogy for Jimmer is: Jack of all trades, master of none. If D-Rose was a 1 dimensional as you make him out to be, he would have never been the #1 overall pick in an NBA draft, or the league MVP and best player on a team that had the league's best record this past season.

I agree completely with what Stokalypse is saying. Do you want your team to try and draft a starter @#12, or are you simply content to see them play it safe and draft the role-player? And if you don't think of Jimmer as a role player, that means you think he's a franchise PG and if you think that, you need your head examined because HE'S NOT and that will be proven over time.

Drafting a starter @#12 is never a guarantee but you at least have to do your homework and try to do just that when your team is rebuilding. Now is not the time for the Jazz to be playing it safe by picking role players with lottery picks.
 
jazzman12 said:
Do you want your team to try and draft a starter @#12, or are you simply content to see them play it safe and draft the role-player? And if you don't think of Jimmer as a role player, that means you think he's a franchise PG and if you think that, you need your head examined because HE'S NOT and that will be proven over time.
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Wait...so...ummm...uh...you think LeBron or Dwight type players will be available at 12? HAHASLOLLL WUT A CHILD!
 
I think the jazz are drafting at 12 with a different strategy, than most teams. The 3 pick should be a franchise pick, but the 12 in our case should sure up a weakness... not necessarily a starter. A guy like Jimmer, definitely sures up a weakness, as a guy who can pick up points when needed. He even is at a need position (assuming we draft big). With the potential to start down the road, which is an added bonus. Ya defense is a need, but i think that worst case scenario is a lot worse than Jimmer.
 
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