I know it's not exhausting at all to forego evaluating the comments you make and why you make them. I welcome your future silence on this issue. Thank you.
Michelle Wolf and the Correspondents' Dinner
- Thread starter Gameface
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I know it's not exhausting at all to forego evaluating the comments you make and why you make them. I welcome your future silence on this issue. Thank you.
LogGrad98
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I don't think you actually made a point. You made a generalized comment regarding one person's opinion, and you made implication that his opinion is solely the result of his innate sexism. You did not try to argue the actual points of the statement he made, you commented on the person making the statements. That is the very definition of ad hominem.
If this was not your "point" please clarify what was and how that fits this specific example, and how your point is supported by the actual comments he made.
Sarcasm to attack someone based on a pre-supposed judgement of his intent.
Here was his original statement:
From this quote, where exactly did he decry her "message"? How was that tied to her being a female? How does using another comedian as an example imply sexism purely because the comparison is using a male instead of a female? How did he attack her by the comment on her voice?
To get to your comment from that comment you have to have a lot of deeply seated judgements that cloud your ability to see it objectively. Could his comments be partly affected by innate sexism, or even driven by them entirely? Sure. Do his comments prove this beyond any doubt? No. Could a reasonable person read his comments and come away with the impression that he simply did not like this comedian, regardless of her gender? Absolutely.
Again, you are reading an awful lot into that one statement. I get that you want to be the champion of all that is PC, and you feel it necessary to point out anytime anyone could have crossed any line, but this is as pretty big stretch, even for you.
I can't wait for the multi-quote reply that sidesteps the original question:
If this was not your "point" please clarify what was and how that fits this specific example, and how your point is supported by the actual comments he made.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Tfw you can't repeat the President of The United States words on a sports forum.
Zombie
Well-Known Member
Yeah I thought she was less 'haha' funny and more 'everything she's saying is true and now I'm sick to my stomach' funny.
As a side note, I agree my comments were directed at the person. However, since the point of my comments were the person, and not some other item I was trying to support, it's not an ad hominem, because that refers to using comments about a person to support a different argument.
What was my point? That Douchebag K was engaging in the normal, everyday sort of misogyny I see all over this board. I felt it was appropriate to discuss in a thread about a feminist (Wolf) being attacked by non-feminists using a distored version of feminist vocabulary, as opposed to the game threads that happen every other day.
Now, I'm not saying Douchebag K was engaging in any sort of egregious, He Man Women Hater's Club type of behavior. In the world I grew up in, and in this regard I have seen little difference in Australia culture, this sort of misogyny is normal, baked into the culture, and expected behavior. It's offers context and imbues subtext. It's a part of me, it's a part of you, it's a part of the female posters on this board, it's a part of Douchebag K. We can recognize it or not, but it is there.
From this quote, where exactly did he decry her "message"? I said "dislike", not "decry", and they are different. Is is side-stepping a question to point out that the question has an inaccurate foundation? Never mind. I acknowledge Douchebag K did not decry Wolf's message. I acknowledge Douchebag K did not endorse Wolf's message. I acknowledge Douchebag K did not distort Wolf's message. Are there any other irrelevant verbs you want me to add? I assert Douchebag K did dislike Wolf's message. Do you have trouble seeing that?
How was that tied to her being a female? By comparison to a male, and a complaint about her voice (if you are not aware of how often men use the timber of women's voices to discount them, try looking around a little more).
How does using another comedian as an example imply sexism purely because the comparison is using a male instead of a female? In a patriarchal culture, women are supposed to be pure, and sex is not a topic they are free to discuss. Thus, when discussing sex, they get held to a higher standard than men do. That's a part of why Douchebag K reached automatically for a male comic to compare to for being crass and dirty.
How did he attack her by the comment on her voice? Same answer as the second question.
Do his comments prove this beyond any doubt? Everything that we are drives what we do. It's all connected.
Again, you are reading an awful lot into that one statement. What name did he choose for an insult he would go by if he lost a bet? One associated with cleaning female genitalia, because apparently that's the worst sort of association he could make for himself in his mind. In another thread, he finds the very notion of culturally-induced sexual standards laughable, supporting the patriarchal notion of sexuality. In this very thread, his first response to my point is of the type 'I'm not misogynist, some of my favorite comedians are female'. I'm reading very little (he's a typical person of his culture) into several statements.
I get that you want to be the champion of all that is PC Should I champion things that are not correct?
I can't wait for the multi-quote reply that sidesteps the original question I hope you feel your questions have been addressed directly. Please let me know if you think I side-stepped any of them.
Being crass has nothing to do with having brains. It has something to do with being decent. I don't think there is any insight or comment that would not work better with the thought it takes to be decent about it.
I don't think the way most men think, or the way most women think. I think the generalization here is so typical of college-prof indoctrination maybe I could just get sloppy and say it reflects the way most college profs think most men think.
You don't do yourself a credit to live in the alt reality of PC constructs about society and what the enlightened think we need to do to change people for the better. It's a world of delusional logic. Try out your actual intellect and see if you can't just see people for what they are, without the blinders.
You can only stare and wonder at the lack of self-realization here.
Archie Moses
Well-Known Member
It sounds like her speech was over your head then or maybe you didn't actually listen to it and are basing your opinions on what others are saying.
If she was too crass for you then I guess Trump is waaayyyy to crass for you to listen to as well.
I essentially addressed the basics in our different takes in the LTE. You are right. I avoid stuff that is vulgar as too low-class to deserve intelligent study. But I am not all that consistent about it. Trump gets a pass, and so do folks who support Trump because they are so ecstatic about Capitalism coming home to America.
Doesn't mean vulgar language doesn't have some effective pluses in conversation with those who are comfortable with it. I listen nowadays to Sonny Johnson on her Saturday radio gig with XM 125. She loves the rap. Did a complete takedown of some conservatives who are not comfortable with HipHop this week. She does keep her comments sanitized to meet the expectations of her producers/hosts, but I get the gist that she is comfortable with the crass speech culture. Still she is fundamentally brilliant intellectually.
Michelle is probably as smart, and as articulate as Sonny Johnson. I just believe Sonny should have been given the gig at the Whitehouse Correspondents dinner.
Seriously...... I mean seriously.
apparently Bullet missed the point on this one. Straight-faced somber vindication for all of Michelle's critics, and by her former associate no less. We should all just throw in the towel and agree.
In the Great State of American Prostration, we simply cannot believe any jokes any more
We cannot tolerate bullying in the American Public Spaces. I mean, what are our kids learning about life from all this?
Everybody is telling jokes while America goes down the drain, and we sack our kids with the tab?
#NoKidding.
The Thriller
Well-Known Member
She was honest and wasn’t PC. I thought repubs hated PC? And how dare she use Donald’s own words against him?! Repubs acting all butt hurt about her performance are either regurgitating nonsense from Fox News and Hannity or are too stupid to realize their own boy has said all of these things and worse.
Bleeding from her wherever!
******** countries!
Grab em by the...
Bleeding from her wherever!
******** countries!
Grab em by the...