Best Utah Jazz starting 5 of all-time

[Ron Mexico]

He did not peak at 22. He was still at his peak in NBA 23-25 ( sadly injuries cut some of those seasons short) yet his role on the team was reduced by Sloan and his love for Boozer/Williams pick and roll. AK was MVP of Eurobasket in 2007 and leading underdog Russia team to championship. He should have requested a trade form the Jazz to shine on some other team - yet Miller talked him into staying and accepting reduced role which he did.

Those are the excuses people make for him. I dont really care about his play in Euroleague. In the NBA he peaked at 22 and got worse every year. He took a reduced role to win. That team wasnt going anywhere with him as a #1 option. Boozer and DWill were much better players especially offensively. Hayward on the other hand was the #1 option with a team that went somewhere.

 

[carolinajazz]

Why on Earth is anyone picking Pistol "Overrated as Hell" Maravich over Donovan?

Pistol Pete with today rules, (3 pointers, no hand checking) would have been a killer combo with Stockton! Malone as one forward, Donovan as the other forward and probably Eaton at center would have been entertaining to say the least! Malone, Eaton and Donovan would have given us enough boards, and I don't see too many dry trips to the other end of the court, do you?

 

[MVP]

That is true, AK was better at some things. His FG% was not better. Hayward shot .506% from 2 compared to .471 for AK. Hayward shot .398% from 3 compared to .338% for AK. Hayward had a TS% .595% to AKs .559%. Hayward shot .692% at the rim to AKs .575%. Hayward was better at shooting and scoring from every where on the court at every distance.

Oh so you comparing the last season of Harpring vs 2003-2004 AK? You are comparing the only season Hayward shot above .500% from 2 when AK had 7 seasons with better 2Pt fg% than .500 and his career 2pt% is .510 vs Haywards .471. As I said AK did not peak in that season... he had better TS% , AST, Blk, PER and other stats in seasons after. I think it is not fair to ignore that.

 

[Ron Mexico]

While I agree that after 2004 he was chasing some stats and his man to man defence got worse with time, in 2002-2004 AK man to man to man defence was elite. He shut down Kobe for whole second half in one game. I remember the game vs Denver in 2004 where he blocked Carmelo like 4 times when he was trying to go at him one on one, it was plain ridiculous how Carmelo stopped even looking at the basket with AK near him.

I do remember that game against Kobe and others but I also remember him getting burned a lot. Kobe also dropped a lot of points on AK in their first matchup that year. Kobe averaged 30 ppg on 48% shooting against AK in their careers when they played. Well above Kobes averages. Including a 3 40 point games and 1 38 point game where AK was the primary defender or played most of his minutes on defense against Kobe in 2003 across 2 seasons.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Oh so you comparing the last season of Harpring vs 2003-2004 AK? You are comparing the only season Hayward shot above .500% from 2 when AK had 7 seasons with better 2Pt fg% than .500 and his career 2pt% is .510 vs Haywards .471. As I said AK did not peak in that season... he had better TS% , AST, Blk, PER and other stats in seasons after. I think it is not fair to ignore that.

Yes, I picked Hayward's peak season and AKs best overall season. What year was AKs best year? We can look at those. They are overall worse. He might be better at a couple stats but the other stats get much bigger gaps. There is also the fact that Hayward as a #1 option won and the team did something. A team with AK as your #1 option is not a playoff team. If you swap AK for Hayward last year that team does not make the playoffs.

Ak had potential and then he got paid and quit practicing and improving. One of the bigger Jazz disappointments.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I have never like a player so much and soured on him like AK. He was my favorite player for a few seasons. One of the big mistakes the Jazz made in the DWill/Boozer era is not trading him.

 

[Jazzta]

Replace Dantley with prime AK and it is more balanced. We would not need Dantley's offense with Malone and Mitchell scoring the most. And Gobert patrolling the paint and AK helping on the weak side? That starting 5 would be nightmare to deal with for anybody.

AD was an offensive prowess, averaging over 30 pts during a season that I recall. Was he much worse defensively?

 

[Miggs]

Pistol Pete with today rules, (3 pointers, no hand checking) would have been a killer combo with Stockton! Malone as one forward, Donovan as the other forward and probably Eaton at center would have been entertaining to say the least! Malone, Eaton and Donovan would have given us enough boards, and I don't see too many dry trips to the other end of the court, do you?

So you go small ball with Donovan at the 3 but then choose Eaton as your center? Brilliant move, Dipstick.

 

[Miggs]

AK was a ****ing bum and might as well have been nicknamed The Tinman he was so heartless.

 

[idestroyedthetoilet]

Yes, I picked Hayward's peak season and AKs best overall season. What year was AKs best year? We can look at those. They are overall worse. He might be better at a couple stats but the other stats get much bigger gaps. There is also the fact that Hayward as a #1 option won and the team did something. A team with AK as your #1 option is not a playoff team. If you swap AK for Hayward last year that team does not make the playoffs.

Ak had potential and then he got paid and quit practicing and improving. One of the bigger Jazz disappointments.

Andrei was a straight up assassin almost right out of the gate and was blowing up to Haywood's level in his second year, and has always maintained either an incredible drtg-ortg ratio. When injuries started piling up is when the concern came, but he's always put up advanced stats as good as Haywood, if not better.u.

I see an argument for modern play vs then, but AK is easily the superior defender, got to the line at a good clip, assisted well, and was terror on the fast break.

It's a tough decision and I can't decide because AK would be so damn lethal in a modern scheme.

 

[Eminence]

AK was a beast, could've brought the future a decade early if Sloan had realized he was a 4.

Stockton/DWill
Hornacek/Mitchell
Hayward/Ingles
Malone/AK
Gobert/Okur

Dantley/Maravich are very talented players, but I think they're poor fits for loaded teams, very much solo star type of talents. Just don't think Eaton would be nearly as good in the current league, and Okur offers a bit of a 5 out look that we couldn't easily get with Gobert/Eaton as the centers. Think you could put the 2s/3s in any almost configuration of starters/bench guys.

 

[LoPo]

I have never like a player so much and soured on him like AK. He was my favorite player for a few seasons. One of the big mistakes the Jazz made in the DWill/Boozer era is not trading him.

Exactly. I loved AK, but when we moved him from PF to SF, he was never quite the same. I think we really screwed that one up. Boozer was great for us, but AK could have evolved into an absolute X factor at PF. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight...

 

[MVP]

There is also the fact that Hayward as a #1 option won and the team did something. A team with AK as your #1 option is not a playoff team. If you swap AK for Hayward last year that team does not make the playoffs.
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Put Hayward on 2003-2004 team and they do not win 42 games. AK supporting cast was Arroyo, Lopez, Handlogten, Collins, Harpring, Ruffin and Ostertag for crying out loud. Jazz started 5-0 in 2004-2005 with AK as primary option even after we added Boozer and Okur and were in middle of playoff race before Ginobili flopped into AK's knee at effectively derailed Jazz season. I think you are really underestimating what impact AK had on those teams. Put prime AK on our team last year and we not only making playoffs but we winning more games as well. Quin would utilize AK in today's NBA way better than what Sloan was doing in mid 2000's.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Andrei was a straight up assassin almost right out of the gate and was blowing up to Haywood's level in his second year, and has always maintained either an incredible drtg-ortg ratio. When injuries started piling up is when the concern came, but he's always put up advanced stats as good as Haywood, if not better.u.

I see an argument for modern play vs then, but AK is easily the superior defender, got to the line at a good clip, assisted well, and was terror on the fast break.

It's a tough decision and I can't decide because AK would be so damn lethal in a modern scheme.

No, he wasnt an assassin. He was not really much of a scorer ever. He was good in the open court but really struggled in the half court. He definitely did not blow out Haywards level. As much as we all want to hate Hayward that just isnt the case. He was a good player here, especially that last season.

AKs best season his was 04-05 by overall advanced stats his off rating was 104.6, his defensive rating was 102.1 for a net rating of 2.5.

Haywards best season his off rating was 16-17 of 109.5 and defensive rating of 102.4 for a net rating of 7.1.

Yes Ak had a season of 8.3 much later but he was the 4th option on that team. That net rating was more based on that team being really good around him.

Those are the accurate numbers from NBA.com

If you go by Basketballreference.com then we can just compare their best season by net rating and they both put up 118 off rating and AK def was 105 def to Hays 106.

People can use injuries or coaching as an excuse but they are still just that for AK. Personally I think Sloan handled things fine. He took better players built around them and won. AK is not a guy to build around if you want to win.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Put Hayward on 2003-2004 team and they do not win 42 games. AK supporting cast was Arroyo, Lopez, Handlogten, Collins, Harpring, Ruffin and Ostertag for crying out loud. Put prime AK on our team last year and we not only making playoffs but we winning more games as well. Quin would utilize AK in today's NBA way better than what Sloan was doing in mid 2000's.

Well, I guess those are just opinions. But I disagree with that. AK could not have remotely handled being the primary scorer for us last year like Hayward did. Hayward might have had the better team around him that year but most of the team was injured that year. We were the most injured team in the NBA. Prime Hayward gets that AK 03 team in the playoffs and makes everyone around him better.

But I know nothing will change your mind. AK is your favorite player or one of them.

 

[MVP]

Exactly. I loved AK, but when we moved him from PF to SF, he was never quite the same..

He had his best AST, 3pt%, FG%, TS% and BlK numbers as SF after that move ( 2004-2006 seasons) He had more 5X5's as SF as well. He was still effective until DWill was given reigns to the offense and started freezing him out of offense in 2006-2007 season - that's where things got bad for AK, yet he was still very effective player at his peak as shown later in series vs GSW and Eurobasket 2007 in the summer.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Exactly. I loved AK, but when we moved him from PF to SF, he was never quite the same. I think we really screwed that one up. Boozer was great for us, but AK could have evolved into an absolute X factor at PF. Oh well, you know what they say about hindsight...

I think you misunderstood me. Boozer > PF than AK and a better player. That was a good choice to pick up Boozer and start him at PF. We should have traded AK to help that team go further. AK and his contract held that team back.

 

[MVP]

. Prime Hayward gets that AK 03 team in the playoffs and makes everyone around him better.
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We just have to agree to disagree.

 

[MVP]

I think you misunderstood me. Boozer > PF than AK and a better player. That was a good choice to pick up Boozer and start him at PF. We should have traded AK to help that team go further. AK and his contract held that team back.

Well, they declined offer of AK for Marion in 2007. That's how Miller valued AK.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Well, they declined offer of AK for Marion in 2007. That's how Miller valued AK.

Yeah, I think that was a terrible choice for the Jazz. Although Marion contract was bad as well it was bit shorter if I remember right.