Karl Antony Towns

[NUMBERICA]

I mean, consider this for a moment: Dennis Lindsey has repeatedly stated he and the Jazz org view Rudy as a top ten player in the NBA. That means that they view maybe --MAYBE-- 9 players as being better, in terms of overall impact. None of those nine possible players are going to have the same unique kind of impact that Rudy does. If we assume this to be true, then there is literally no player on the planet who can replace Rudy Gobert. Dennis Lindsey has also repeatedly emphasized the importance of defense as the team's primary philosophy, and it's clear that they have designed their defensive structure entirely around Rudy Gobert.

So, no - saying the Jazz have no interest in trading Gobert, in any reasonable scenario, is not the result of a poor understanding of business, or an over-investment in sentimental nonsense; it's an obvious deduction made from ample evidence about what the team has built, and how they intend to move forward with it.

PS - KAT is not one of the nine players who are arguably better than Rudy Gobert.

You are crushing. Thank you.

 

[Douchebag K]

Minnesota had the 3rd worst defensive rating in the NBA. Counting only the 56 games that Gobert played, Utah's defensive rating was #1 in the NBA by a mile. Including playoffs, the Jazz went 34-12 after Gobert got back from his injury - that's a 60 win pace over a half season's worth of games.

This trade would make us worse.

but but .. muh metrics ...

 

[CALJAZZFAN]

He isn't, but if you trade Rudy for him, you've just traded away the team we currently cheer for. I'm just not doing that.

This team is special. Take ****ing note.

Completely agree. I love this team too and am not advocating trading Rudy, but I think people here are being blatant homers and not giving KAT his due. I think a lot of GMs take KAT over Rudy.

 

[Douchebag K]

Completely agree. I love this team too and am not advocating trading Rudy, but I think people here are being blatant homers and not giving KAT his due. I think a lot of GMs take KAT over Rudy.

what percentage of games did KAT's team win when he played ? What percentage of games did Rudy's team win when he played ?

 

[radiohegel]

Completely agree. I love this team too and am not advocating trading Rudy, but I think people here are being blatant homers and not giving KAT his due. I think a lot of GMs take KAT over Rudy.

But the question isn't about what other GMs think about Rudy vs KAT. The question is whether or not DL would entertain the idea of trading Rudy for KAT. The answer is no.

 

[infection]

But the question isn't about what other GMs think about Rudy vs KAT. The question is whether or not DL would entertain the idea of trading Rudy for KAT. The answer is no.

Other GMs also do things like trading Mitchell for Lyles and Lydon.

 

[Ellipse]

I love Rudy as much as the next guy here

No … you don't.

You want to piss off Mitchell? You want to show him that there is no such thing as team loyalty? Then go ahead and trade away a franchise cornerstone.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Hypothetical legs I suppose, I agree there are too many dominoes to fall to make it realistic.

I hope Gobert reveals his hypothetical legs next to his real legs next season. A four legged Gobert with 2 visual and 2 hypothetical legs would be unstoppable!!!

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

Surprised.. Everybody pretty low on KAT.... Let me play Devil's Advocate. Metrically, hes better on paper than Rudy.

He's 3 Years younger, on a much cheaper contract, and not coming off two knee injuries.
His VORP is 5.5 (Gobert 2.9).
He had the 10th highest PER in the league (24.9, Gobert was 22nd at 20.7)
He had a higher BPM (5.5 to 4.3)
Higher Win Share Rate
More Rebounds.
More Assists.
Only "traditional" stat he doesnt beat RG in is Blocks, but he still gets 1.4 a game.

He shot 42% on 3.5 3pt attempts per game (!!!)

KAT Shoots 86% from the FT line, making his TS% nearly identical to Rudy's, while having a much higher USG%
On that note, his usage is much higher than Rudys, yet he turns it over less than Rudy does.

And he played all 82 games for the 3rd season in a row (!!!) while Rudy was hit with 2 knee injuries (something perhaps not discussed enough, and a chance to be a reoccurring problem with big lankys like Rudy) forcing him to miss nearly a third of the season for the 2nd time in the last 3 years.

People mention KAT's not good defensively. While he's not Rudy (no one is), he had a +1.1 dBPM, which is above average, and averaged over 12 rebs a game (Rudy at just over 10).
Meanwhile, Rudy's offensive BPM was a NEGATIVE (-0.3) while KAT posted a POSITIVE (4.4) offensively.

Would i trade Gobert for KAT 1-1? Probably, TBH, but I'd probably have to pull the trigger with my eyes closed. Rudy is committed, fiery, and is a fan favorite. That said I actually really like KAT, hell just a year ago he averaged 25 & 12 over an 82 games-played season.

I don't scoff at the idea as much as the rest of you i guess.

Things that matter that don't always translate down to a stat number:
He plays atrocious defense.
Rudy disrupts even more shots than he blocks and there is no stat for that.
KAT doesn't take advantage of a mismatched switch. We saw this again and again in the first round. Minn on offense, defense on KAT would be switched and he would have a shooting guard on him. Instead of going into the post for the ball, he hung out around the 3 point line completely oblivious to the mismatch.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

wow Jazz fanz where the grass is always greener on the other team.

Maybe because other states are legalizing marijuana and Utah is not??

 

[fishonjazz]

Maybe because other states are legalizing marijuana and Utah is not??

I believe medical mj is on the November ballot in utah

 

[Revolution 9]

Rudy wants to be here, and has been loyal.

I want a freaking statue of Rudy in front of our new arena (the house the DM and Rudy built after 3 titles).

Love Kat, but Rudy is OUR guy. I want him here until he retires.

 

[Crawlnstall]

I like KAT, the guy is a really talented player. But I am not trading KAT for Rudy.
It's been documented that he is a poor defender, so I won't waste time but regurgitating that.
However I will say what does concern me about KAT....his playoff performance. The last three games he put up decent points - 18, 22 and 23. But what concerns me on it is he averaged 12 shots a game in the series. 12! This is the guy that is suppose to be all time special on offense, and he only gets 12 shots? If you are a supposed offensive star and defensive liability, you damn well better demand the ball and shoot more in the playoffs. He didn't appear very aggressive at all, and that is concerning. Could be mental. The guy has all the tools to be a complete player, but so far is pretty lackluster on defense, has a riff with the coaching staff and didnt demand the ball in the offseason.

I like KAT, but this thread seems to be comparing the two and Rudy is a clear defensive juggernaut and like the old saying goes....Defense wins championships

 

[Dali]

What needs to be taken into account is the loss of the Jazz identity potentially. The jazz will always preach defence, but you lose Rudy, you lose a big part of what you stand for.

Now if this identity was proven a fruitless exercise, then the decision would be easier sure, but it hasn't been. We were lead by a rookie offensively, but I feel the biggest impact was the defence, and Rudy was by far the biggest cog. To the point of being awarded with DPOY one would think. His impact on that end is astronomical.

KAT is only 22? What is he going to be at Rudy's age, the absolute monster everyone expects him to be? It's likely.

I'm not exactly for it, or against it, and it warrants a discussion more than some of the people that dismiss it outright here, regardless of what end of the spectrum they've planted themselves on.

(I fully understand this is just fantasy though).

 

[jjscap]

We're regarded as the #3 or #4 team in the NBA and do you want to replace the team's 25 years old cornerstone already?

 

[jope]

I like KAT, but this thread seems to be comparing the two and Rudy is a clear defensive juggernaut and like the old saying goes....Defense wins championships

Its pretty clear that you need to be a great offensive (and defensive) team in today’s NBA to win championships. I think none of the past 10 champs have been outside of the top 10 in both categories, and the majority of them have been top 3 offensively...

17 & 15 GSW, 16 CLE, those Miami teams with LBJ, 09 Lakers.. (I could keep going..), were all top 3 oRtg teams.

 

[jope]

We're regarded as the #3 or #4 team in the NBA and do you want to replace the team's 25 years old cornerstone already?

No one wants to replace him. This is a mental exercise. The exercise is this.. do you want to replace your (soon to be 26) year old, 3 knee injuries deep, cornerstone who is a fan favorite and the identity of the team, for a 22 year old kid who has been miscoached and still put up 25 and 12 for a whole season already, banking on the trajectory that by the time he’s 26 he’ll be all-nba, he certainly has that talent base.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Gobert and Mitchell are perfectly matched. They are both elite in their respective roles, and complementary enough in the areas where they overlap. That’s not homerism, that’s $$$ well invested in the Jazz’ roster.

Part of their overlap is their commitment to winning. If you’re going to trade Gobert, you’d sure as **** better trade for someone with the same desire and commitment. It’s not merely Gobert’s stats you are replacing.

KAT moves the needle offensively, sure. Does he take the Jazz into the top 3? He better do exactly that, because we would be departing the top 10 defensive list without Gobert.

Answer me this about Towns: Is his mental state more likely to result in a career (offensively) that resembles that of Marc Gasol, or that of Demarcus Cousins?

 

[Piso]

No one wants to replace him. This is a mental exercise. The exercise is this.. do you want to replace your (soon to be 26) year old, 3 knee injuries deep, cornerstone who is a fan favorite and the identity of the team, for a 22 year old kid who has been miscoached and still put up 25 and 12 for a whole season already, banking on the trajectory that by the time he’s 26 he’ll be all-nba, he certainly has that talent base.

95% of injuries are due to contacts. KAT avoids contacts. He's very talented but also soft. For the moment, he's not a good defender or playoff player.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

95% of injuries are due to contacts. KAT avoids contacts. He's very talented but also soft. For the moment, he's not a good defender or playoff player.

Agreed, the little known reason for this dude's staying power and ability to avoid injury.

It's all about the goggles. Avoid contacts.