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Jazz select Grayson Allen at 21

fishonjazz said:
Allen aint slow according to his combine numbers. In fact, he is one of the fastest players of all time when it comes to combine testing. Maybe his whiteness makes him look slow to you though. I get that.
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I've watched Duke play a ton of games. Not once did I think wow Allen is quick. In fact I've thought be plays aggressive and gets burned and is too slow to recover.

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who did you guys want?

Who is super good to make huge difference at 21? I just want to know who you guys wanted. It is hard to find a player that can make a huge difference. Kuzma was last year but that's pretty much it. I think people have too much expectation from 21 lol. Sure we might have missed another Kuzma, but it's just hard to get one at 21.
 
infection said:
If we were to make a move and land Spellman or KBD, in addition — guys who fill a need that I don’t think can be filled in free agency — then this is a totally different draft. People were moving out of the second round in exchange for two future second rounders. We are already owed two future seconds from SA and WAS. With our history of treating them like leftovers that sit in the fridge for a week before throwing out, are we averse to combining them and landing something of value (like a KBD), or do we think we’ll easily replace that in FA, or that we’ll run it back with Favors and he’ll start hitting threes?

Allen will probably be a decent player. No concerns about that. But “landing a guy who could be okay” isn’t what was sold about staying in the draft when we passed on Niko — a guy who’s already leaps and bounds above “a decent player,” not to mention filling a critical need we have. It’s the context of everything that’s frustrating. No beef with Allen. Actually quite miffed about the second rounder issue.
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Yup... its the entire approach that is weird and upsetting... the hate unfortunately falls on Allen's head because he is a magnet for that.

Getting multiple guys in this year would help ensure we get a contributor on this teams timeline. It was clearly doable based on how many picks moved. By all accounts this was a draft that was deep in the late first early second.

We could have received 34, 37, 38 for sure. hell Vlade owes us a solid after almost effing up our trade deadline (37).

Guys picked after 34 - with some decent upside imo

Frazier
Robinson (culture fit wouldn't work)
Trent
Thomas
Kurucs
Vanderbilt -some like him A LOT
Bruce Brown - was a potential mid first rounder last year and had an injury this year
Justin Jackson - disappointing year but has some potential
Melton - no idea why he slipped this far
KBD - the same... should have been taken 15 spots higher.

The biggest ones imo are Brown, melton and KBD... I get that Brown and Melton would kind of be buried but KBD could have played minutes... if it is a roster crunch issue do we really need Neto if we took Allen? Do we need all four of Favs, Jonas, jae, Thabo?

It is likely that most of those guys aren't NBA players... but almost guaranteed 2 or 3 are.
 
dong2ha said:
who did you guys want?

Who is super good to make huge difference at 21? I just want to know who you guys wanted. It is hard to find a player that can make a huge difference. Kuzma was last year but that's pretty much it. I think people have too much expectation from 21 lol. Sure we might have missed another Kuzma, but it's just hard to get one at 21.
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Spellman. Would have been a reach, but I’d imagine he could have actually started for us this year.
 
fishonjazz said:
What are you talking about. Another poster posted his advanced defensive numbers and they were good. His whiteness doe.
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He's 6'4 in shoes. He is going to have to defend guys 6'8 every night. Unless you put him on super quick point guards. His fancy shuttle time in the combine doesn't convince me.

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Handlogten's Heros said:
Yup... its the entire approach that is weird and upsetting... the hate unfortunately falls on Allen's head because he is a magnet for that.

Getting multiple guys in this year would help ensure we get a contributor on this teams timeline. It was clearly doable based on how many picks moved. By all accounts this was a draft that was deep in the late first early second.

We could have received 34, 37, 38 for sure. hell Vlade owes us a solid after almost effing up our trade deadline (37).

Guys picked after 34 - with some decent upside imo

Frazier
Robinson (culture fit wouldn't work)
Trent
Thomas
Kurucs
Vanderbilt -some like him A LOT
Bruce Brown - was a potential mid first rounder last year and had an injury this year
Justin Jackson - disappointing year but has some potential
Melton - no idea why he slipped this far
KBD - the same... should have been taken 15 spots higher.

The biggest ones imo are Brown, melton and KBD... I get that Brown and Melton would kind of be buried but KBD could have played minutes... if it is a roster crunch issue do we really need Neto if we took Allen? Do we need all four of Favs, Jonas, jae, Thabo?

It is likely that most of those guys aren't NBA players... but almost guaranteed 2 or 3 are.
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KBD could have started. That’s an easy, cheap replacement of Favors. While we earned $500k selling the pick, we could have easily saved $8-12M by not needing to bring back Favors.
 
My2Cents said:
I don't know. Posters on a message board have to know more that DM, DL, and QS.
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Because it is only posters that think this may have been a bit of a reach... not other educated basketball experts. I'm fine with Allen, but the guys saying there is no way guys here could be more right than DM, DL, or QS is kind of dumb... many here thought Booker was better than Lyles... guess what?

We are allowed to disagree and stand on our own opinions... I'm just fighting back the notion that if a player is good then we should all be cool... you think DM knows who Okobo is? i mean he might but I doubt he has looked over the numbers and games some here have.

I think it is great to get input.. get all the data you can... but use it as one data point.
 
infection said:
KBD could have started. That’s an easy, cheap replacement of Favors.
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i wouldn't go that far, but you've been pretty spot on with your other stuff this year. I think he could have replaced Jerebko and had potential for a lot more. The tools and shooting are pretty great. i do wonder if there was a medical red flag.
 
One of the things we pride ourselves on is our development staff and program... why not put a few more guys in the system? over 2-3 years you will find a contributor. Even if it is a Neto, McConnell, or Dhillon Brooks... that means you don't have to spend resources on replacement talent... and sometimes you find a Millsap, Jokic, Covington (undrafted I know), Draymond, Middleton but if you continually pass you don't get those slim chances.

hell look at GS... the year they took Green they had two first round picks... so they brought 3 rookies to camp... it must have been utter chaos and completely unmanageable. Without Green they don't have championships... these moves around the fringes are damn important and we've gotten casual with them the last 4-5 years.
 
Magic Spray said:
GMs aint always the best GMs either.

No way Dennis Lindsey drafts someone he doesn't absolutely love after he listened to Ty Corbin and drafted Trey Burke and his moms and pops and dickpics.
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how do we know he didn't love the Burke pick too?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
i wouldn't go that far, but you've been pretty spot on with your other stuff this year. I think he could have replaced Jerebko and had potential for a lot more. The tools and shooting are pretty great. i do wonder if there was a medical red flag.
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Possibly red flag. However, I really think that starting at the four with our team as presently constituted doesn’t require a lot of overwhelming skill or experience, but someone could shine with the right skill set, of which my criteria would be:

1. Be able to hit open threes in moderate fashion (35%).
2. Not suck at defense.
3. Not suck at rebounding.

KBD and Spellman would check the above, and I think it would make our team game a lot stronger. Our other options lack something in there:

Favors: can’t hit threes.
Crowder: can’t rebound.
JJ: not a great defender, especially not on a switch.

I see Bjelly as lacking in D and rebounding, which sours me. We get someone — anyone — in our system that is a decent perimeter shooter, decent rebounder at the 4 (at least 8.5ish per 36), and isn’t a terrible defender, and the sum will be significantly higher than the total of the parts. Unfortunately, I don’t see a lot of that available anymore.
 
Of the guys I really researched, I probably would have said my board (of where I’d walk away without reservation) would have been Donte > Spellman > KBD = Musa.
 
I think Grayson Allen will be okay for us. I see him as a 6th or 7th man. He'll be our version of Manu Ginobli bringing toughness off the bench. He'll play hard, play in the system and help orchestrate with our second unit, and that's something we need. He'll expend a lot of energy defending, cutting, moving the ball, and that will let Mitchell focus on scoring. I can see why Mitchell likes the idea of Grayson supporting him. He won't compete for touches or dominate the ball.

I thought guys like Troy Brown and Josh Okogie had the upside to become starting two-way wings for us, but they were off the board.

I can understand if the Jazz felt Simons was too undeveloped and a bit of a risk -- in other words, that his upside wasn't enough to take on his downside. That said, you can see that the Blazers jumped on Simons at #24 and then they traded up in the 2nd round to get Gary Trent. Considering their draft position was worse than ours, I like their approach to the draft.

All things considered, Lindsey and Quin have a vision for the team, and Grayson must fit that vision while knowing his place in the pecking order.
 
I remember someone posted a video of him on senior night, his team mates seem to love him, he can't be all bad.
 
infection said:
KBD could have started. That’s an easy, cheap replacement of Favors. While we earned $500k selling the pick, we could have easily saved $8-12M by not needing to bring back Favors.
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Did we confirm it was $500k? I think it might be more, but that was all they had left in the 2017 year to give.
 
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