Jazz select Grayson Allen at 21

[LoPo]

But are they positionless? Do they fit into "today's NBA"? These are important questions to be answered.

Absolutely positionless. Hayward's hands are so unique, he never has a backhand.

 

[infection]

I means the hands are strong on all 3 levels.

Everyone pimping up this strength without realizing it could also be his ultimate downfall.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

https://youtu.be/tuwLFkpk4Lw

I'm not the only one who liked Okobo that much. Other people here had him in their top 10 or 15 too. And some draftniks liked him that much too. We shall see how he does.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Simons is already more offensively skilled than Allen and more talented on the ball, and he's 3 years younger. He needs a year or two to develop physically.

Are you going to remember this in a couple years when Simons is the better player?

You have no idea if this is true or not, he played against high school competition. Dante Exum looked like a superstar in high school. Then he got to the NBA and nothing worked. I would have been fine with Simons, but I also realize no one had any idea what he was, it's a bet mostly on physical measurables.

 

[The Midnight]

I means the hands are strong on all 3 levels.

This post is strong on all 3 levels.

 

[The Midnight]

I'm still fine with the pick. The only player available at 21 that I personally would have 100% taken ahead of Allen was Elie Okobo. Okobo was #8 on my board. After Okobo the top 5 prospects left on my board at 21 were KBD, Robert Williams, Simons, Musa and Grayson. A good argument can be made for Allen to be the pick over anyone in that group. He was a better fit than Williams on our roster. We need offense and he's more of an offensive player than KBD. And he was a safer pick than Musa or Simons.

True.

 

[The Midnight]

Man, so many posts I wanted to rep today. WHERE'S THE REP SYSTEM WHEN YOU NEEDED ONE?!?!

 

[The Midnight]

Everyone pimping up this strength without realizing it could also be his ultimate downfall.

GOLD

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

You have no idea if this is true or not, he played against high school competition. Dante Exum looked like a superstar in high school. Then he got to the NBA and nothing worked. I would have been fine with Simons, but I also realize no one had any idea what he was, it's a bet mostly on physical measurables.

This is part of the scouting process. You look at data and what the player can and can't do and make projections. Allen is going to play hard, bust his *** on defense, make some open shots and be a rotation guard who can play on the ball off the bench. DL made it sound like he's going to be a role player. He may be good in this role, but he doesn't have the talent level to be a lead guard or a primary scorer.

Exum was a guy who was very raw and needed to develop physically and develop his shooting. He got derailed with the ACL before his 2nd season. Otherwise, he was showing real progress in his second summer league.

Simons already has a number of advanced skills to go along with elite athleticism. His ceiling is very high, but I don't think the Jazz want to wait on developing him. They want to maximize wins right now.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Simons already has a number of advanced skills to go along with elite athleticism. His ceiling is very high, but I don't think the Jazz want to wait on developing him. They want to maximize wins right now.

What, like Archie "Michael Jordan" Goodwin?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

after watching the video of Allen I have a couple thoughts...

Marvin Bagley sets really ****** screens. Some of the can’t get separation isn’t his fault.

Grayson goes balls to the walls for loose balls... he’s going to have a few moments this season that get ESA pumped. Not a reason to draft someone but it should be fun.

I do think he will be good in our system attacking close outs...

I don’t think his defense will be so bad that he’s unplayable... he is likely going to take a couple charges. I do worry he will be like Neto though... in the rights spot most of the time but guys will be able to shoot over him and he will be generally ineffective.

I’ve talked myself off the ledge... just wish we had gotten another guy in.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

What, like Archie "Michael Jordan" Goodwin?

Archie Goodwin was a raw athlete who never learned to play.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Archie Goodwin was a raw athlete who never learned to play.

And your assessment that Simmons is a more skilled prospect is based off of high school games and workouts against cones.

You might be right, but to suggest that there's real information that shows Simmons is a more skilled player than Allen - who I didn't want and am not particularly high on - is straight silly.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I don’t see why Allen can’t be a younger more athletic Joe Ingles. Ingles has a high b-ball IQ, why he’s as good as he is. Might take Allen a couple years, but he can get there.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I don’t see why Allen can’t be a younger more athletic Joe Ingles. Ingles has a high b-ball IQ, why he’s as good as he is. Might take Allen a couple years, but he can get there.

Joe Ingles is quite tall for a wing (Allen is not), and has a silky, otherworldly feel for the game. I really don't see the comparison, which isn't to say that Allen can't be a nice player.

 

[infection]

I’ve talked myself off the ledge... just wish we had gotten another guy in.

What do you mean? We got half of The Million Dollar Man:

Half of him not good enough for you?

 

[NUMBERICA]

What do you mean? We got half of The Million Dollar Man:

Half of him not good enough for you?

Mmmmmmm nom nom nom

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

And your assessment that Simmons is a more skilled prospect is based off of high school games and workouts against cones.

You might be right, but to suggest that there's real information that shows Simmons is a more skilled player than Allen - who I didn't want and am not particularly high on - is straight silly.

Simons was considered one of the best shooters in his 2018 HS class and was ranked #8 in that class by ESPN. Numerous scouts point to his potential as a primary scorer who can play on or off the ball and get to the rim. He's young and a year or two from being physically ready, but he's considered a really solid prospect able to go from HS to the pros. He has a lot of upside.

The fact that Grayson Allen is 23 years old, had his best season at Duke 2 years ago, and struggles to get by defenders and create shots for himself counts as real information. DL admits Allen is really a role player. He became a role player at Duke, and he'll do the same for us. Every team needs a Matthew Dellevadova-type energy player who plays scrappy defense, knocks down some open shots and plays within the system. That's all anyone is expecting from Allen. If he does more than that, then great.

For a team that historically acquires its best talent via the draft, Allen is a pretty conservative pick. The Jazz must think they'll be able to acquire another significant scorer via trade or free agency in the near future. Or maybe they believe in 'internal development' from Exum, Rubio or O'Neale.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

What do you mean? We got half of The Million Dollar Man:

Half of him not good enough for you?

I want a video of DL walking to Ted’s music...

Money money money monnnnneeeyyyy.... everybody has a price.

 

[cowhide]

The Jazz didn't make this pick in a vacuum. They must have considered all kinds of factors. One consideration may be that the Jazz could lose either Exum or Rubio within a year due to free agency, so they want a guy who can play PG in that eventuality, while also being versatile enough to play the 2 as well. Maybe the Jazz think they're going to be able to get a forward who can score via free agency, so taking Hutchison or Jacob Evans weren't priorities. The Jazz are very focused on maximizing the next 2 - 3-year window and may not have had the patience or the roster flexibility to develop a player like Simons.

That said, at face value Hutchison, Simons and Okobo all look like better talents than Allen, imo.

Allen is a 4-year college player, very well coached. He's a guy who obviously looks good in workouts. His best position longer term may actually be at the 1 where he has a size and strength advantage. It sounds like he dominated against Jalen Brunson in his Jazz workout. My criticisms of him are that he can't really get by defenders off the dribble, he's mediocre at creating looks for himself, and he'll be yet another guy who needs to be set up with multiple actions to be able to score consistently. He's decent at a number of things at the college level, but I'm struggling to identify a bonafide NBA skill. He has decent IQ, but his passes are pretty rudimentary. He's not going to defend like Royce O'Neale. He's not going to score and get fouled like Alec Burks. He's not going to blow by defenders or defend like Dante Exum. Like most players, his ceiling will be based on how well he shoots the ball, and his shooting last year was so-so.

I think he's most likely to be a bench player. If the Jazz retain Exum, then Allen will be our 4th guard at best, competing for minutes with Burks and Royce O'Neale. Who knows if he'll get time at the 1. Maybe he'll replace Raul Neto.

What were you expecting our pick to be at 21. Of course he is going to be a bench player, we have Rubio and Donovan starting. The Jazz bench needs improvement if we are going to compete against Houston and GS of the NBA. Burks is gone and O'Neale defense is great but his shooting is horrible most of the time. He is also insurance if Exum doesn't come back. He can play the backup PG with Oneile being the SG. I expect that he will be in the rotation coming off the bench. I will let the coaches figure out when and how much he plays.