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2011 draft.....

NAOS said:
But what if I'm done with CJ? You know, I'm in the FO and I'm saying, "Well, we'll pick up the option because not doing so is stupid as hell and we wanna get something out of him... so..."

I'd trade him for the pick that gets us Jenkins any day of the ****ing week.
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It's about value. CJ's value is 10X greater than the chance to pick Jenkins. Only Jazz fan(z) think CJ is a worthless scrub. My guess is KOC hasn't picked up CJ's option because there isn't any practical reason to guarantee his salary yet. He could break his leg. He could do something stupid. No need to lock into the guarantee before you have to on almost any player. KOC could work out a trade for CJ today, guarantee his salary today, and make the trade today. I wouldn't be surprised to see CJ traded. I would be stunned if it was for a high first round pick.
 
billyshelby said:
It's about value. CJ's value is 10X greater than the chance to pick Jenkins. Only Jazz fan(z) think CJ is a worthless scrub. My guess is KOC hasn't picked up CJ's option because there isn't any practical reason to guarantee his salary yet. He could break his leg. He could do something stupid. No need to lock into the guarantee before you have to on almost any player. KOC could work out a trade for CJ today, guarantee his salary today, and make the trade today. I wouldn't be surprised to see CJ traded. I would be stunned if it was for a high first round pick.
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Spot on. CJ is hated by Jazz fans because he is a shameless chucker, but his overall value as a player is higher than most people want to admit. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him traded, but the FO isn't going to be dumping him just for the sake of having him gone, like they should be doing with Bell.
 
billyshelby said:
It's about value. CJ's value is 10X greater than the chance to pick Jenkins. Only Jazz fan(z) think CJ is a worthless scrub. My guess is KOC hasn't picked up CJ's option because there isn't any practical reason to guarantee his salary yet. He could break his leg. He could do something stupid. No need to lock into the guarantee before you have to on almost any player. KOC could work out a trade for CJ today, guarantee his salary today, and make the trade today. I wouldn't be surprised to see CJ traded. I would be stunned if it was for a high first round pick.
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I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying.... but don't get shocked when we get less than high first round pick. That would surprise me.
 
NAOS said:
but don't get shocked when we get less than high first round pick.
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I agree that it's not likely we'll get a high first rounder for him. Don't be shocked when he's still on the team. (;

I agree with Billy when it comes to trading CJ for an established player, but not necessarily straight up. I can see CJ being packaged with another player/pick. I also don't get how some fans fall in love with all these players and start dreaming about drafting 3 or 4 rookies out of this draft. If our FO has their heart set on a player who is projected lower, they will make a deal to trade down and stockpile assets. I would lick KEK's keyboard if Utah picks up more than 2 rookies in this draft.
 
NAOS said:
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying.... but don't get shocked when we get less than high first round pick. That would surprise me.
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Sorry, "high" makes it sound like I'm implying lottery level. I meant "late." We could trade CJ for a late 1st. It would just be foolish to do it.
 
freakazoid said:
Spot on. CJ is hated by Jazz fans because he is a shameless chucker, but his overall value as a player is higher than most people want to admit. I wouldn't at all be surprised to see him traded, but the FO isn't going to be dumping him just for the sake of having him gone, like they should be doing with Bell.
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Yeah, meant late, not high, but we agree on this. Jazz fans mistake their fatigue with CJ for what other teams perceive of his ability.

To other GM's who aren't emotionally beaten down by CJ's development he's a guy who has done things for stretches that a lot of players in the league can't do. He can be a terrific scorer. He's also a pretty decent passer and showed an ability to drive last year. Inconsistency at his age is not perceived to be a major problem because no one, except Jazzfanz, would doubt there is still upside potential to his game.
 
freakazoid said:
I agree that it's not likely we'll get a high first rounder for him. Don't be shocked when he's still on the team. (;

I agree with Billy when it comes to trading CJ for an established player, but not necessarily straight up. I can see CJ being packaged with another player/pick. I also don't get how some fans fall in love with all these players and start dreaming about drafting 3 or 4 rookies out of this draft. If our FO has their heart set on a player who is projected lower, they will make a deal to trade down and stockpile assets. I would lick KEK's keyboard if Utah picks up more than 2 rookies in this draft.
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Agree again. I very much doubt KOC is looking for lateral moves on CJ. But I could see him going in a larger move for a Granger type player. CJ's trade value as I see it is as a sweetener with one of the draft picks for a more established vet. But with one cheap year on his deal, and no veterans on the roster at his position, I'd be surprised if he isn't back.
 
BENTLEY said:
Jenkins, Jackson might be there at 34. Mack will be.
Tyler won't, so I wouldn't use the 18th on a PG. If you want to gamble on Tyler's upside you gotta take him with the 18th pick IMHO.
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Most draft boards that I've seen Tyler is at the bottom of the first round 30 to 32 picks. Unless he has moved up there is a chance he drops a little depending how the draft goes. Sometimes guys are pushed down a little or they go up a little. It will be interesting to see where he goes. I think he is high risk/reward kid.
 
previous drafts

Just out of curiosity folks, is there a link to an in depth analysis on the most successful picks of 2010? I know Wall lived up to the number 1 pick, but I was just wondering who else lived up to their expectations or who just completely failed. I would also like to know within the last five years how well have the 3rd and 12 picks have done in the nba.
 
cowhide said:
Most draft boards that I've seen Tyler is at the bottom of the first round 30 to 32 picks. Unless he has moved up there is a chance he drops a little depending how the draft goes. Sometimes guys are pushed down a little or they go up a little. It will be interesting to see where he goes. I think he is high risk/reward kid.
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Yeah, that's where Tyler's likely to go. He might jump into the 20s, but I'm comfortable he'll be there at 18 (I think).
Pick 34? I think it's very questionable he falls that far, no matter what the mocks say now.
And are the guys at 18 that much better than those at 34 that you don't mind losing the Tyler gamble? I mean, there's still some quality guys to grab @ 34 - Butler, maybe Bertans, a few decent PGs, some people really like Chandler Parsons and he'll definitely still be there.

I mean, I guess @ 18 you might prefer to take a gamble on Brooks - if he's still there. People like Singleton and maybe he falls to 18 but I doubt it - his hype is infectious. But I'd rather gamble on Brooks before Singleton anyway. And I'd probably still reach for Tyler before Brooks. But maybe not. I dunno.

All this speculation is supposing the Jazz trade with Washington which may not happen, but this is fun anyway. It gives us some new stuff to discuss. I love fiction.
 
After 6 years and every excuse in the world now used up and invalid, CJ Miles still has upside? I hope other teams don't have access to any information about him, because it doesn't take a lot of research to see that Miles is a chucker and at his best is wildly inconsistent.

I've defended him longer than most have, but I would be shocked if Miles' value was anything more than #20 in a bad draft.
 
I'm not a Vesely hater. I should clarify I wouldn't mind him at 12 now. He just isn't going to be there.
Top 3 is not where you get an "energy player".
 
Numberica, I agree with you. CJ is who he is. I am sure other fans overvalue their players but I laugh sometimes how some Jazz fans never want to trade a specific player (because he has potential) but if that player leaves the Jazz he immediately sucks. CJ was a high second round pick and what he has shown is he is a late first round pick at best. I wouldn't be surprised if he was part of a trade package or traded for a first or high second round pick. I was a fan of CJ but I just can't be patient anymore. The kid has physical tools but mentally he is a fragile person.
 
David Thorpe talks about Biyombo

I was checking out draft rumors and found this little tidbit regarding Biyombo from David Thrope.

https://www.libertyballers.com/2011...-nba-draft-news-andre-iguodala-rumors-nba-cba

What Biyombo brings to the game right now is exactly what you'd expect when you first see him. He has amazingly long arms, and he uses them as often as he can. That part is easy to see. But I like his nimbleness in defending ball screens and closing out shooters. Other than a few occasions when he stumbles, Biyombo has a smart and mature approach to the way he plays defense. He anticipates well and is not one of those shot-blockers who never wants to leave the paint. He has an advanced understanding of team defense, clearly coming from his experiences playing at such a high level. It would be fair to assume that his team in Spain would go undefeated in any major college conference in America, and that should give you some indication of the talent level there.
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I wonder if his strong defensive motor would permeate thru the team. His mere presence might make everyone better on that side of the ball.
 
BENTLEY said:
I was checking out draft rumors and found this little tidbit regarding Biyombo from David Thrope.

https://www.libertyballers.com/2011...-nba-draft-news-andre-iguodala-rumors-nba-cba



I wonder if his strong defensive motor would permeate thru the team. His mere presence might make everyone better on that side of the ball.
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I read the entire Insider article. Thorpe absolutely loves Biyombo. He thinks Biyombo alone will make a team a top 10 defense in the league. If he is as good of a help defender as Thorpe seems to think, it would give the rest of the team to tighter on the ball and wings. If the Jazz take Knight at 3, I hope Biyombo is there at 12.
 
i never said that they will have 3 rookies just draft 3 players. I see them possiable taking a flyer on a Euro and keeping them overseas or getting a second rounder and seeing if they can earn a spot on the roster.
 
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